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2 Roadies Dead near Pemberton

June 4, 2015, 8:26 p.m.
Posts: 26382
Joined: Aug. 14, 2005

How about we start by drawing it at the 2nd or 3rd conviction for drunk driving. Or maybe after the second stint in prison for drunk driving. Maybe once we figure out a way to get those folks off the road, then we can start splitting hairs over how little is still too much?

Problem is while you can take away their license and car. Still doesn't stop them from buying an E Scooter without a license. And carrying on as per normal. Have heard a few stories of people banned from driving because of excessive drinking and driving, They go buy a E Scooter and still drink and drive. Know of at least 2 incidents in the last year locally.

www.thisiswhy.co.uk

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June 4, 2015, 11:02 p.m.
Posts: 13610
Joined: Jan. 27, 2003

Stick to the trails kids.

I'm sorry but to me this kind of attitude just reeks of victim blaming. This was a tragic accident that could have been avoided if it wasn't for the criminal carelessness of a person towards other human beings. it's disrespectful to the ones who died to insinuate they shouldn't have been there doing that thing. These were long time, serious and very experienced cyclists.

www.natooke.com

June 5, 2015, 12:24 a.m.
Posts: 90
Joined: March 2, 2011

I'm sorry but to me this kind of attitude just reeks of victim blaming. This was a tragic accident that could have been avoided if it wasn't for the criminal carelessness of a person towards other human beings. it's disrespectful to the ones who died to insinuate they shouldn't have been there doing that thing. These were long time, serious and very experienced cyclists.

I understand what you are saying, but its an idealist attitude. As long humans continue to drive cars, there are going to be accidents.

Everything you do in life has risk associated with it. It's up to the individual to decide whether they are okay with the risk or not.

I don't blame the cyclists for this incident and no doubt they were aware of the risks beforehand. Unfortunately they died doing what they loved.

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June 5, 2015, 12:41 a.m.
Posts: 13610
Joined: Jan. 27, 2003

I understand what you are saying, but its an idealist attitude. As long humans continue to drive cars, there are going to be accidents.
Everything you do in life has risk associated with it. It's up to the individual to decide whether they are okay with the risk or not.
I don't blame the cyclists for this incident and no doubt they were aware of the risks beforehand. Unfortunately they died doing what they loved.

Yeah it's true. Everything has risk. I just doubt people here would be saying the same thing about mountain bikers who died as the result of trail sabotage, although if one prescribes to that kind of logic they probably should for consistency's sake.

www.natooke.com

June 5, 2015, 7:02 a.m.
Posts: 4841
Joined: May 19, 2003

dutch , do you consider it an " idealist attitude " to expect that one should be able to engage in an activity which is widely accepted as commonplace , practiced by untold millions worldwide and sanctioned by law , without fear of personal injury or death ? not in the world i live in , and i hope you don't either .

it might an " idealist attitude " to expect that we might one day not have repeat offender career criminals taking the lives of innocent people just because they want to drive a car while they don't have the capacity to do so safely .

i understand " risk " , and accept it as a daily part of life , but that is vastly different from an expectation that something bad will happen whenever i set foot out my door .

i feel for the guy . he had a shitty upbringing but that doesn't give him the right to take the lives of others just because he wants to be a good guy and drive his buddy back to his rez 120 km away over a challenging mountain highway while he is pissed drunk .

i'm waiting for him to be charged so we can find out who he is , and his community can be collectively embarassed by his actions . let's hope they respond appropriately .

btw dutch , you make reference to car " accidents " . . . in my opinion this wasn't an " accident " in the common " it just happened " sense . this tragic occurrence was the predictable outcome of a long string of events .

June 5, 2015, 7:48 a.m.
Posts: 3326
Joined: Nov. 23, 2002

dutch , do you consider it an " idealist attitude " to expect that one should be able to engage in an activity which is widely accepted as commonplace , practiced by untold millions worldwide and sanctioned by law , without fear of personal injury or death ? not in the world i live in , and i hope you don't either .

it might an " idealist attitude " to expect that we might one day not have repeat offender career criminals taking the lives of innocent people just because they want to drive a car while they don't have the capacity to do so safely .

i understand " risk " , and accept it as a daily part of life , but that is vastly different from an expectation that something bad will happen whenever i set foot out my door .

i feel for the guy . he had a shitty upbringing but that doesn't give him the right to take the lives of others just because he wants to be a good guy and drive his buddy back to his rez 120 km away over a challenging mountain highway while he is pissed drunk .

i'm waiting for him to be charged so we can find out who he is , and his community can be collectively embarassed by his actions . let's hope they respond appropriately .

btw dutch , you make reference to car " accidents " . . . in my opinion this wasn't an " accident " in the common " it just happened " sense . this tragic occurrence was the predictable outcome of a long string of events .

i think the point that dutch is making is about being time and place appropriate. so while people can and do pedal the duffey, how smart a choice is that? with the duffey you have a winding mtn hwy that has many sections with limited sightlines and narrow or non-existent shoulders. it's a dangerous road for vehicles, never mind cyclists. while cyclists have a right to use the duffey hwy, i've always thought of the risk as too high.

the driver has been identified:

http://www.lillooetnews.net/news/local-news/local-man-identified-as-driver-in-triple-fatality-1.1954667

We don't know what our limits are, so to start something with the idea of being limited actually ends up limiting us.
Ellen Langer

June 5, 2015, 8:56 a.m.
Posts: 87
Joined: March 13, 2015

while cyclists have a right to use the road, i've always thought of the risk as too high

+1

Your 0.02 opinion is worthless. Since Feb 2013, pennies have to be rounded down. Sorry.

June 5, 2015, 11:05 a.m.
Posts: 4841
Joined: May 19, 2003

yeah , I get that point mark , and it is well taken .

I guess I am just a bit more pissed about this one for some reason , and not trying to pick an e-fight with anyone .

could be the irony . . . I saw those guys literally 2 minutes before they would have started their descent , and later that day rode through the X'axlip nation , a place I had never been before .

and again , this ain't just a FN problem , I get that .

June 5, 2015, 11:15 a.m.
Posts: 3326
Joined: Nov. 23, 2002

yeah , I get that point mark , and it is well taken .

I guess I am just a bit more pissed about this one for some reason , and not trying to pick an e-fight with anyone .

could be the irony . . . I saw those guys literally 2 minutes before they would have started their descent , and later that day rode through the X'axlip nation , a place I had never been before .

and again , this ain't just a FN problem , I get that .

for sure Ian, and i didn't see it as an e-fight at all. i think as people, and even more so as cyclists, we should upset over this no matter who caused it. i see the big issue here is the still generally lax societal attitudes towards drinking and driving.

We don't know what our limits are, so to start something with the idea of being limited actually ends up limiting us.
Ellen Langer

June 5, 2015, 11:26 a.m.
Posts: 64
Joined: Aug. 6, 2004

This tragic event also brings up a very important topic.

Uninsured and Under-insured Vehicle operators.

This guy most likely has no insurance or assets of any kind. It is prudent when selecting your car insurance for the days you commute to work by bike, car or other that you make sure your back is covered.

Getting excess U.M.P. coverage, which provides coverage to $2 million. All you or a family member needs to do is pay a premium of around $25 when placing ICBC insurance on one of the vehicles in the household.

June 5, 2015, 11:59 a.m.
Posts: 2412
Joined: Sept. 5, 2012

This tragic event also brings up a very important topic.

Uninsured and Under-insured Vehicle operators.

This guy most likely has no insurance or assets of any kind. It is prudent when selecting your car insurance for the days you commute to work by bike, car or other that you make sure your back is covered.

Getting excess U.M.P. coverage, which provides coverage to $2 million. All you or a family member needs to do is pay a premium of around $25 when placing ICBC insurance on one of the vehicles in the household.

cyclists carry no road insurance yet use the same roads and many cyclist ride in the same manor as a motorcyclist , meaning they ride where a motorbike would on the road , not on the side of the road as a pedestrian would walk .

#northsidetrailbuilders

June 5, 2015, 12:56 p.m.
Posts: 64
Joined: Aug. 6, 2004

cyclists carry no road insurance yet use the same roads and many cyclist ride in the same manor as a motorcyclist , meaning they ride where a motorbike would on the road , not on the side of the road as a pedestrian would walk .

Cyclist insurance is not required by law, but you certainly can get it even if you have no car. If you have a car and ride a bike its an extra 25$ on top of your regular policy to bring the low limits up to 2 million.

To say cyclists carry no road insurance is false if that person holds a regular ICBC Vehicle policy and also cycles.

June 5, 2015, 8:27 p.m.
Posts: 13610
Joined: Jan. 27, 2003

i think the point that dutch is making is about being time and place appropriate. so while people can and do pedal the duffey, how smart a choice is that? with the duffey you have a winding mtn hwy that has many sections with limited sightlines and narrow or non-existent shoulders. it's a dangerous road for vehicles, never mind cyclists. while cyclists have a right to use the duffey hwy, i've always thought of the risk as too high.

the driver has been identified:

http://www.lillooetnews.net/news/local-news/local-man-identified-as-driver-in-triple-fatality-1.1954667

I just fear assigning any kind of responsibility to the dead cyclists only serves to diminish the severity of the driver's crime.

www.natooke.com

June 5, 2015, 10:09 p.m.
Posts: 15019
Joined: April 5, 2007

Some of the comments in this thread border on victim blaming. To the people making these comments; fuck you and the high horse you rode in on!

Get over your roadie hate and realize the issue is that a career drunk driver hit and killed two cyclists and a passenger in the vehicle they were driving on a roadway in BC.

Why slag free swag?:rolleyes:

ummm, as your doctor i recommend against riding with a scaphoid fracture.

June 6, 2015, 7:58 a.m.
Posts: 568
Joined: April 7, 2003

Some of the comments in this thread border on victim blaming. To the people making these comments; fuck you and the high horse you rode in on!

Get over your roadie hate and realize the issue is that a career drunk driver hit and killed two cyclists and a passenger in the vehicle they were driving on a roadway in BC.

Thanks. It could have just as easily been a motorcyclist or another car that he hit. And we wouldn't blame those victims.

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