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veganism

June 23, 2017, 10:57 a.m.
Posts: 511
Joined: Feb. 24, 2017

i've read a cursory amount about it on the internet, but have yet to dig in seriously. i was told that there aren't any scientific, double blind peer reviewed studies and that as will most things regarding nutrition there are no definitive answers and lots of conflicting evidence. anyhow....

i met a guy (mid 50s) who seems very healthy and fit, and has been a vegan for a few years. he claims (without being pushing or zealous about it) that it all but makes greater longevity certain, and is key to maximum health. he also said dairy is extraordinarily bad for us and all opinions to the contrary are sponsored by big dairy.  i'm wondering what experience (and opinions) anyone in here has with it. this is my second attempt to post this, there was either a glitch the first time or it was taken down (??), no idea.

June 23, 2017, 11:59 a.m.
Posts: 99
Joined: Oct. 18, 2016

I've been vegan for ten years, and vegetarian for a few years before that. I don't focus too much on health studies and that stuff because I'm mostly coming from a moral angle, and I'm doing it for the animals. I just do my best to eat "right", and focus on vegetables and whole foods as opposed to processed goods. I do have a sweet tooth though. I can tell you that I feel great and most friends have trouble keeping up with me on climbs.

June 23, 2017, 10:17 p.m.
Posts: 14366
Joined: Nov. 20, 2002

a local indigenous person  told me "vegetarian" is wetsuetin for shitty hunter

June 24, 2017, 11:34 a.m.
Posts: 511
Joined: Feb. 24, 2017

yeah vegetarnianism and veganism are not that prevalent amongst indigenous people's world wide i gather. discussing the potential benefits of a meatless diet to a native and/or FN person is probably met with some amusement.

June 24, 2017, 12:58 p.m.
Posts: 14366
Joined: Nov. 20, 2002

yeah traditionaly the FN ate whatever was around or what they could trade for salmon/bear/moose/deer but also seaweed and forest plants but now its a lot of white man crap. This has happened in indigenous populations every where in the world. I knew doctor who was the only MD for the eastern arctic during the 50's and he watched the inuit diet go to shit in a generation and then on hoiliday in the 80's he seen the exact same scenario happening in New Guinea.

but if you really wana stop eating meat you really gotta do it right or your body won't get what it needs. My former wife fed us veg when my sons were toddlers, she cooked some fairly tasty shit and i think she was doing it properly cuz the boys were fine during some formative growing years but she still developed an iron defficency at which point the veg experiment was over

And me, I cheated with a lot of beer/burger lunches


 Last edited by: XXX_er on June 24, 2017, 12:59 p.m., edited 1 time in total.
June 25, 2017, 2:33 p.m.
Posts: 7543
Joined: June 17, 2003

Been vegan for close to a year. The negative environmental impacts of the livestock industry are irrefutable, the morality of raising/slaughtering sentient animals is questionable at best (especially when we don't need meat/animal products in our diets), the negative health impacts of animal/dairy products are backed up by scientific evidence.

Practically speaking, millions of people are thriving on a vegan diet. And you see a lot of vegans among athletes, such as endurance athletes (ultra runners) and bodybuilders. Both need to be lean as well as strong/fit.

Iron deficiency is common in the general population (30% of the global population), not exclusive to vegans by any means. There is disagreement anyway about the minimum recommendations for iron. Iron can be easily supplemented (vegan supplements) if needed.

I highly recommend checking out Nutritionfacts.org for scientifically-backed, study-based health info.

Personally speaking, I went vegan and immediately dropped 7-8 lb on an already lean 125 lb frame (previously was pescatarian for awhile). The extra fat that I could never get rid of, even through strict calorie control/exercise/hungriness, just melted away on a vegan diet. Now I eat as much as I want, whenever I want, and am never hungry. And I sleep better at night knowing that I don't support the livestock/dairy/fishing industry. There has never been a better time to go vegan with so many food options out there. If you're a foodie, IMO the vegan diet is the ultimate diet because you can eat as much as you want without gaining weight (assuming you don't eat a lot of junk/processed food).

My only regret is that I didn't turn vegan a lot sooner. Not just for my health but for the health and education of my family.

I'd be happy to offer more advice offline if you want to send me a PM. (I won't be responding to trolls if this turns into the usual NBR gong show. The hardest part of going vegan might be dealing with the same old misinformed/trolling arguments--humans have canines, humans are top of the food chain, we are made to eat meat, plants are intelligent/feel pain too, agriculture kills animals too, blah blah blah.)

Edited for clarity.


 Last edited by: sanrensho on June 25, 2017, 5:17 p.m., edited 1 time in total.
June 25, 2017, 2:42 p.m.
Posts: 7543
Joined: June 17, 2003

Just to add, according to the American Dietetic Association (largest organization of food and nutrition professionals in the U.S.):

"It is the position of the American Dietetic Association that appropriately planned vegetarian diets, including total vegetarian or vegan diets, are healthful, nutritionally adequate, and may provide health benefits in the prevention and treatment of certain diseases."

If you've got Netflix, I recommend watching What the Health (documentary) and Cowspiracy for starters.


 Last edited by: sanrensho on June 25, 2017, 5:20 p.m., edited 1 time in total.
June 25, 2017, 8:40 p.m.
Posts: 944
Joined: Nov. 23, 2002

At the end of the day if you're eating a diet that consists primarily of whole foods - nothing processed, no sugar, no refined grains, nothing artificial, etc - you can eat what you want. There's nothing bad about having meat in your diet from a health standpoint, but if you want to cut it out though that's ok too. Anybody who says meat is not healthy is either lying or doesn't understand nutrition basics. Like XXX'er alluded too there are a number of indigenous cultures that survived and thrived on high protein and fat diets.

Remember that the human body is wonderfully adapted to eating a wide variety of foods, it's part of the reason we've survived considering our relative physical inferiority compared to many animals

Edit

I think that one thing that gets missed a lot in the switch to a vegan or vegetarian diets is that people also tend to cut out a lot or most of the crap processed food they're eating and the benefit comes from eating a whole food diet. I know when I was at my leanest this is what was going on.


 Last edited by: syncro on June 27, 2017, 4:17 p.m., edited 4 times in total.
June 26, 2017, 2:31 p.m.
Posts: 762
Joined: March 12, 2004

Eat what you want.  As long as you aren't one of the douchnozzle twats trying to force your way of eating on everyone else by sabotaging farmers or holding "funerals" at the grocery store.

June 27, 2017, 4:23 p.m.
Posts: 944
Joined: Nov. 23, 2002

Posted by: sanrensho

The negative environmental impacts of the livestock industry are irrefutable, the morality of raising/slaughtering sentient animals is questionable at best (especially when we don't need meat/animal products in our diets), the negative health impacts of animal/dairy products are backed up by scientific evidence.

I totally agree on the negative environmental and ethical impacts of the livestock industry, but question the broad claim about negative health impacts. Is there any specific scientific evidence you have that shows the negative health impacts?

June 27, 2017, 4:58 p.m.
Posts: 511
Joined: Feb. 24, 2017

while humans are surely omnivorous and highly adaptable, i think it's widely accepted wisdom that we largely evolved as meat eating animals. eating meat and consuming large quantities of fat played a role in the development of the large human brain.  though what and how we raise livestock on a commercial industrial scale is totally disturbing.

June 28, 2017, 11:03 a.m.
Posts: 3463
Joined: Dec. 17, 2003

Posted by: syncro

Not a direct link to studies, but https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2121650/

not directed at Syncro, but OP:

Things to remember about Veganism - Vegenaise is the devil, and Oreos are vegan. Just because it's vegan doesn't mean it's healthy or a good choice. Especially with the increase in popularity of going vegan.

Personally, I'm stronger and faster than I ever have been, but that's not much of a baseline. I'm not doing it for the animals, but for myself.

Jan. 26, 2018, 10:41 a.m.
Posts: 396
Joined: Jan. 31, 2005

Posted by: JBV

yeah vegetarnianism and veganism are not that prevalent amongst indigenous people's world wide i gather. discussing the potential benefits of a meatless diet to a native and/or FN person is probably met with some amusement.

I'm not sure you can survive as a vegan hunter-gatherer. You just wouldn't be able to get enough calories. Veganism kind of depends on agriculture, which basically brought with it the end of humanity living in harmony with nature. Up until that point we lived in small, egalitarian nomadic groups whose population was controlled by resources and environmental conditions.

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