Vaccination- Good or Evil?

The flu vaccine is a different beast than most others. I think the danger is that people equate getting the flu vaccine with others (MMR, HPV, etc). Saying that the flu vaccine didnt work this year (which granted, the predicted strains weren't spot on) and then deciding to not get MMR or HPV shows a fundamental lack of understanding of science and what vaccines do.

I get the differences and understand why they don't always work as the strain they are designed for may not be the one you get. This is of course different than the ones contemplated in this thread.

If you fuckers didnt read this, you should. Sums up my position.

I read it and it was loaded with bullshit and presented as though it was unbiased but was clearly by an anti-vaxxer.

First he starts out by going over the words "consensus" and "eradicate" to "educate" us on their meaning, like we can't use a dictionary. Of course both of these words are linked to the pro-vax crowd and the correct usage of both of them is of prime concern. He goes on about consensus as though it is just the opinion of most people and not most doctors, and of course that doesn't matter anyway because [HTML_REMOVED]insert anecdote about consensus gone wrong 100 years ago here[HTML_REMOVED].

Then he tries to tone down the rhetoric by saying "Both sides want the same thing: to make the best decision possible for their family." Actually no, the pro-vaccination wants to make the best decision for their families AND the population at large, which in this case is a big difference.

After that it is the usual BS about the anti-vaxxers being confident rogues questioning authority while the rest of us blindly accept what the media tells us because we are sheeple, bla bla, because obviously none of us have thought to research the subject like those free thinking geniuses that believe juicing cures all viruses.

Then of course comes the conspiracy theory because if big pharma is involved it must be a lie. This is actually the best part of his argument disguised as a call to calm and rational discussion because we can all agree that most of these companies are out for nothing but the all mighty dollar and play dirty to get it. But to throw his credibility out the window once again he compares it to the the subject of climate change where he states that "evidence that the government, researchers, media, and practically everyone else with a fingerprint on anything Global Warming related has manipulated data continues to arrive from every crack and crevice." Does this guy have a PHD in confirmation bias? The only crack this is coming from is in the middle of his ass.

And the BS continues. He compares dying of measles to dying in a car accident. Of course driving a car has an actual purpose and the only reason measles are rare is because of vaccinations but don't let sense get in your way of kick ass analogy. He says:

"Again, I’m not arguing for or against vaccines, I’m arguing for sanity. If you believe that “you’re putting people at risk of death” is a valid argument, then the injury/death by vaccine argument is equally (actually it’s moreso) valid, is it not?"

Sorry bud, you are clearly arguing against vaccines or you would have made the case at least once FOR vaccines by now. We take the risk of driving for the reward of getting from A to B in a reasonable amount of time. What is the reward for getting measles exactly? Is there a t-shirt?

After that there is some crap about mandating breast feeding because that is for the good of all as well as it is good for the immune system and those of us that are for vaccinations (he really seems focused on blaming one side here.. odd) should go the whole 9 yards in our convictions. But of course vaccinations are about tackling specific diseases that have caused large scale issues in society, not for making it harder to catch a cold but I think we know what side this guy is on by now. Personally I don't want to mandate anything, just educate.

He ends it with a couple of nods to the vaccination side of the argument by countering 2 of the more obvious canards (it causes autism and it isn't natural so must be bad) as to seem like he is not on either side of the "debate" but we all know what side he is on, he is just too much of a pussy to admit it.

Bottom line: My kid will have enough diseases to contend with as she grows up. New ones pop up every day it seems. She doesn't need the diseases of old rearing their ugly heads just because some people think being healthy is the same as being vaccinated.

SO buddy seems to be pissed off about vaccinations due to his personal experience with the alleged intentional misuse of a medicine, it strikes me this has almost nothing to do with vaccinations other than they are both medicines?

I read it and it was loaded with bullshit and presented as though it was unbiased but was clearly by an anti-vaxxer

Thank you, exactly what I thought too.

If I didnt care, I wouldnt reply or re-re-pose the same question. I think you guys are enjoying this trollery of me but it's ok to admit, despite your vast intellect, that you didnt ask and blindly trusted the 'system. The fact you've demonstrated your efficiency at side tracking, you get a gold star.

How about ALL of you pro vaxxers sign up for an Ebola vaccine and lettuce all know it works out for you. Everyone says Ebola's no big deal so even if the jab causes a small ebola rna viral replication, you'll be safe and in good hands in our superior medical system. So easy question: Would you take the ebola vaccine? They're harmless and prevent disease from spreading afterall. \

Seriously, you, Enduramil, Duncan, and KenN. Would you vaxxers take the ebola vaccine? It's a simple yes no - sure there's no need (yet) to take it but if they're safe, why the fuck not right? We've all taken the measles vaccine which according to Norona's article, states it's only a %0.2 chance of contracting measles. You guys give Ebola less % than that… So?

edit/ps: I never stated I knew or know whats in a vaccine. Perhaps the underlying reason why I was asking you that was two reasons - does anyone know? And I also purposely asked that so someone else, who knows who, a non member random lurker, might take it upon themselves to ask their own doctor that. Or ask if the doctor knows where to get a MSDS for it (I'll just say good luck). Why? Because we can and why shouldnt or cant we know? What product can you buy that doesnt list the ingredients? Non premium gas pumps have a may contain 10% ethanol (warning) sticker. Alcohol lists contents as well (absolute flavors: vodka, natural flavors, compare with stoli or smirnoff flavors next time). And we dont inject those products into our bloodstream. Make the gas injection joke, please. By default, shouldnt Health Canada have something like that for vaccines? Or is it because its socialized medicine its a no go? You pro vaxxers are the ones implying you know there's no risk associated with your best guess on how to live and I'm supposed to live by your rules in this case just because of the herd. That's another reason why I smoke the devil weed. This reality is skewed because of that mentality you so endear. You cant tell me you dont see any fallacy in that way of thinking? Oh right, you'll just side track to something else like sugar, which is at least natural comparatively.

I've tried answering your question three times in different ways to no avail. I'll give up here.

In terms of the self-martyrdom, yes being in the minority in a conversation can be stressful.

Finally, the verbiage above is a grammatical mess. The only obvious question in there that I can, and have answered is the ebola vaccine question. If you go and see one of my first posts in your ebola thread I said something along the lines of, "don't worry, they'll get a fix figured out". That right there would imply I would take it if I needed to.

edit/ps: I never stated I knew or know whats in a vaccine. Perhaps the underlying reason why I was asking you that was two reasons - does anyone know? And I also purposely asked that so someone else, who knows who, a non member random lurker, might take it upon themselves to ask their own doctor that. Or ask if the doctor knows where to get a MSDS for it (I'll just say good luck). Why? Because we can and why shouldnt or cant we know?

my 2 second google search revealed this:

http://www.immunize.ca/en/publications-resources/contents.aspx

It describes the basic ingredients contained in vaccines in Canada with links to the producers for full lists of vaccine composition. It's not witchcraft. Reminds me of watching "the Secret" movie, where they state "it's like electricity, nobody knows how electricity works, we just turn on the switch and the lights come on".

Probably a good argument for a large part of the population, oh ya, I don't know how electricity works…

but we do know how it works. We've known for a long time.

I read it and it was loaded with bullshit and presented as though it was unbiased but was clearly by an anti-vaxxer.

Can't rep. Furq.

Can't rep. Furq.

Done.

but we do know how it works. We've known for a long time.

You mean there is not a micro singularity behind every switch plate providing the power?

for those in the LM with dogs….

http://globalnews.ca/news/856016/warning-issued-after-canine-parvovirus-outbreak-in-b-c/