The Running Thread

Running boosts your aerobic engine way quicker than a bike ride will. I've found that running noticeably boosts bike fitness, but I've never found it to go the other way around. You can't coast on a run. ;)

Oh…. You finding riding to easy? Maybe you should fire your coach and trainer.

Running boosts your aerobic engine way quicker than a bike ride will. I've found that running noticeably boosts bike fitness, but I've never found it to go the other way around. You can't coast on a run. ;)

I find that the workout from running is better given the time. However, I find the opposite. Running in no way helps the cycling, but the cycling helps the running as far as aerobic fitness. Banging off a 15 to 20km run is easy on the heart and lungs, but working the next day…

Everyone is different I suppose.

Running does strengthen the muscles and makes my hips feel better as it gets me out of the cycling hunch.

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what the shorter workouts won't provide though is the muscular conditioning to run long distances.

Don't forget the other soft/connective tissue, like cartilage, tendons, ligaments, synovial bursae, (and other things like feet and toes) which need to gain durability over longer distances that short-distance training conditions cannot create.

When I used to run marathons, I would start the season running mostly on dirt and as I ramped up the distance adding more and more miles of pavement until my final long run which was all pavement, as the race was. Running all those miles on pavement from day 1 would probably have subjected my rebuilt ACL to more grief than necessary.

yeah good point, i meant that just didn't include it.
i edited that post to reflect this.

Don't forget the other soft/connective tissue, like cartilage, tendons, ligaments, synovial bursae, (and other things like feet and toes) which need to gain durability over longer distances that short-distance training conditions cannot create.

When I used to run marathons, I would start the season running mostly on dirt and as I ramped up the distance adding more and more miles of pavement until my final long run which was all pavement, as the race was. Running all those miles on pavement from day 1 would probably have subjected my rebuilt ACL to more grief than necessary.

Also factor in that running trails and natural surfaces causes you to actually work harder compared to on the road. Concrete and asphalt don't have a lot of give and are great rebound surfaces. Easy example would be bounce a golf ball on a parking lot then try and do that on a natural surface.

Running doesn't help my cycling at all, I find the reverse to be true. Especially two-a-days, going for a spin later in the day (or next day) helps my legs/joints recover from runs. Plus the obvious benefit of getting cardio training without pounding the hips/knees.

[QUOTE=heckler's better 1/2;2809124]Any words of wisdom from folks who have done a 1/2 Marathon ?

Only 8 weeks of training left and am starting to feel a little nervous.[/QUOTE]

I've only done two, both last year, and I'm hoping to do my first full marathon later this year.

Here are some tips that worked for me;

1). Break the race up in your head. For me it was 4 x 5km sections with a 1.2 km 'sprint' at the end. This is more for the mental side of it because the truth is if you've put in the kilometers you'll be fine physically. Set target times for each section. My plan was to go out slower and finish faster. I have to admit that tracking down and passing the people who passed me early on was a great motivator.

2). Have multiple goals. I set a Bronze, Silver, and Gold goal. I don't only do this on race day, I also do it on longer training runs. For example in my first half marathon my 3 goals were;
- Bronze: Finish
- Silver: Finish ahead of my Wife
- Gold: Finish sub 90 minutes

3). Control what you can control: What I mean by this is if you have system that works for you prior to your long training runs, do that same thing on race day. For me, I picked my favourite shorts [HTML_REMOVED] socks and wore them for the long runs [HTML_REMOVED] on race day. I also ate the same thing for breakfast each time. I also started my last few long runs at the same time as the race (which was 7am or 8am or something).

Also factor in that running trails and natural surfaces causes you to actually work harder compared to on the road. Concrete and asphalt don't have a lot of give and are great rebound surfaces. Easy example would be bounce a golf ball on a parking lot then try and do that on a natural surface.

Another side benefit of soft/uneven surfaces is they increase your joints lateral stability (hard, even surfaces have mostly up/down stresses) which can help prevent twisting/turning injuries in your feet, ankles and knees.

I’m training for an even later this summer that involves a bit of running.
In my youth, I was somewhat a good runner, being a competitive Junior level triathlete. Sub 40 minute 10 KM runs were normal. Just under 40 was a recovery run. Pushing for a sub 1:20 ½ was typical, etc. Fast forward I left triathlon to return to competitive soccer in university, and remained a competitive player up till just a few years ago. Never really stopped riding, though. Mountain biking and the odd bit of BMX racing stayed in my life.

So, since I started actually training for running in September, I’ve only now started to like and appreciate it again. The most difficult part for me is the mind f_ck that comes with returning to training after, literally, 22 years off.Basically, after such a long absence, I’m a rookie again, but the problem is, I remember what it once was. Running the same training routes was much faster that is hard to accept. It’s hard to accept that now, when I see a hill, I dread it instead of dancing up it. Through the last 22 years, my body has totally changed. I now look like I should be skating up and down the left wing, not running. And my times my god they are so slow!

One thing I have come to appreciate is that this seems to be helping my body reset itself. Soccer, basically, wrecked me for running. Sounds contradicting to say, but soccer specific training is definitely more on the anaerobic side than aerobic, and the injuries that piled up never really left. Mostly, for me, were back issues. I attribute a lot of those to training and playing on artificial turf, as almost all cities have gone that route. Playing on grass became an infrequent treat. For several years late in my life playing at the Premier or Div. 1 level of open men’s, vitamin “I” became a staple, and all that does is mask the pain. Now, though in the past month I’ve found I can go out for a 15-20 KM run, and actually feel fine the next day. Granted, the next day does need to be light, but it’s nice to have that feeling back, whereby the runs are now routine, and my back actually doesn’t hurt afterwards. It’s taken September through February, of consistent training, to get that feeling back.

Also, to chime in about the “does running help cycling more, or vice versa” I think the gains begin and end w/ cardiovascular only. I know for certain, late in my playing life when I started supplementing riding for running, instead of running in the offseason to get ready for soccer, it took me way longer to get “into” the season. Yes, there were fitness benefits, but there was zero muscle memory gained. I also notice that now that I am ramping up my riding mileage, that it feels the same as this time last year, and the year prior, and the year prior but my recovery from a hard effort is much improved.

Anyhow for you guys w/ marathon experience, what are your feelings on mixing in speed days every week? Keeping in mind, like most of you, I have a career and kids I need to manage as well, so it’s not really feasible to throw down 100 KMs a week more like 40-50.

Thanks syncro and others for your replies to my question a few pages back. Main goal is health, but the mental impact of a nice trail run is a huge part of the equation. I think I would go insane spending any time in a gym.

Anyhow for you guys w/ marathon experience, what are your feelings on mixing in speed days every week? Keeping in mind, like most of you, I have a career and kids I need to manage as well, so it’s not really feasible to throw down 100 KMs a week more like 40-50.

I wouldn't pass myself off as an expert, but when I was training for longer distance events, that is what I did. I think it's too much wear and tear on your body to hammer out 3 or 4 long runs in a week. I think one is enough, then work on technique, speed, strength in the other runs. Especially with trail running on the North Shore, so much downhill and off-camber stuff can wreak havoc with your knees. I'm dealing with a bit of runner's knee right now from increasing the distance a little too much.

Thanks syncro and others for your replies to my question a few pages back. Main goal is health, but the mental impact of a nice trail run is a huge part of the equation. I think I would go insane spending any time in a gym.

I wouldn't pass myself off as an expert, but when I was training for longer distance events, that is what I did. I think it's too much wear and tear on your body to hammer out 3 or 4 long runs in a week. I think one is enough, then work on technique, speed, strength in the other runs. Especially with trail running on the North Shore, so much downhill and off-camber stuff can wreak havoc with your knees. I'm dealing with a bit of runner's knee right now from increasing the distance a little too much.

body type and proportions come into the equation a lot here. there are people who are "built" for running as there are people who are "built" for weightlifting. someone who is 130lbs @ 5'10" is going to put a lot less stress on their body from running than someone who is 200lbs @ 5'10".

my buddy the ultra runner/ultra coach told me he found it easier to make an ultra runner from scratch than to make a marathoner into an ultra runner …something to consider if you want to ultra

Dear NSMB Fitness folks,

Got another question for you, I am consistently doing all my runs in training for the May 4th BMO half marathon, but am noticing a very disturbing trend that my runs are actually getting slower. What can I do to work on increasing speed ? Looking back to last year where I was only running about 10km per week I was able to do a 10km race in 1:02 -1:04 range, now I am lucky to do 10km in about 1:10…

Help, rep gun ready.

Lick Farts or Fartlek its up to you

http://www.runnersworld.com/race-training/lost-art-fartlek

if you want to run fast you must run fast, atleast for a little while..
I used to struggle to see improvments in my speed until i hit the track, but you can avoid the bordom and do it with less structure..

The basic idea is to run at or near your desired race pace, you will only be able to do this briefly during training so you put rests between efforts