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strength training discussion thread

March 11, 2016, 9:53 a.m.
Posts: 3100
Joined: Oct. 24, 2004

Good points. Like I mentioned, I'm pretty new to this but after some time in I can see where maybe I could switch things up to target my goal a bit better. I have a great cardio and muscle base to work with. Might be time to look into some other options other than the basic 5x5

viperfunk.com

Nov. 5, 2016, 2:35 p.m.
Posts: 13026
Joined: Nov. 24, 2002

Ok, my left shoulder/biceps is more or less alright, definitely not as painful as it has been a few months ago. Nearly full mobility in the rotator cuff and low intensity/high rep lifting is working great, too.

Now on Monday I want to start lifting in a gym again, thought that most likely something like Starting Strength might be worth starting with.

Funny, I am a little confused about my goals. On the one hand I want to get back my levels of strength I had some time ago (not much to talk about, but still, for me it felt great), on the other I want to work on my look.

Now, if I look at the original Starting Strength template I know that I might miss Kettlebells and things like TGUs and walking with something heavy. But as of yet I have not found a program in which all elements which I want to do and practise are part of.

And I definitely do not want to try and write something myself. Hybris is no longer on the menu.

So, can you guys help me out?

"You don't learn from experience. You learn from reflecting on the experience."
- Kristen Ulmer

Nov. 5, 2016, 3:25 p.m.
Posts: 1933
Joined: Nov. 23, 2002

Ok, my left shoulder/biceps is more or less alright, definitely not as painful as it has been a few months ago. Nearly full mobility in the rotator cuff and low intensity/high rep lifting is working great, too.

Now on Monday I want to start lifting in a gym again, thought that most likely something like Starting Strength might be worth starting with.

Funny, I am a little confused about my goals. On the one hand I want to get back my levels of strength I had some time ago (not much to talk about, but still, for me it felt great), on the other I want to work on my look.

Now, if I look at the original Starting Strength template I know that I might miss Kettlebells and things like TGUs and walking with something heavy. But as of yet I have not found a program in which all elements which I want to do and practise are part of.

And I definitely do not want to try and write something myself. Hybris is no longer on the menu.

So, can you guys help me out?

you can have looks and strength at the same time, but you can't maximize both at the same time so it depends what you want more. a major factor either way will be avoiding processed and crap foods, the rest will depend on how much energy you're willing to give to your goals. figure out how much time you're willing to put into your training routine and then build a program out from there. you can still do all those fun things like kettlebells nd tgu as they will help you achieve your physique goals.

Luck is what happens when preparation meets opportunity ~ Seneca

Nov. 5, 2016, 3:38 p.m.
Posts: 13026
Joined: Nov. 24, 2002

you can have looks and strength at the same time, but you can't maximize both at the same time so it depends what you want more. a major factor either way will be avoiding processed and crap foods, the rest will depend on how much energy you're willing to give to your goals. figure out how much time you're willing to put into your training routine and then build a program out from there. you can still do all those fun things like kettlebells nd tgu as they will help you achieve your physique goals.

Thannk you for the reply.

Well, I cleaned up my nutrition and have time to spare since I do not have to go to work until next year September.

I do want to add some biking to the mix as well, and my short runs as well - so I need to be careful with the loads and the intensity, not to forget my martial arts practice.

So now the question what to do exactly, and when. Starting Strength is based on five lifts, and I could substitute one lift, the Power Clean, with Swings.

The template asks for squatting three times a week, so as to not interfere with my other activities I think it would be fair to just squat on days when the template asks for bench presses and deadlifts. To wrap up that day I could do some light TGUs at the begnning since it is a pretty technical movement.

So the other day would consist of standing overhead presses and swings. I do not want to do pull-ups yet, since I do not think that this is a good idea for my biceps.
Farmer walks with a reasonable weight that is moved with grace, integrity and fluidity are fine, so these could be done on the press and swing day.

Workout A
TGUs
Squats
Bench Press
Deadlift

Workout B
Farmer Walk
Standing overhead press
Swings

Good idea?

"You don't learn from experience. You learn from reflecting on the experience."
- Kristen Ulmer

Nov. 7, 2016, 9:52 a.m.
Posts: 8
Joined: Jan. 7, 2006

So you're doing a 6 day per week routine with this? This routine is great for increasing your lifts of the big three (bench, deadlift and squat), but does not constitute a full body workout by any means. The routine will hit pretty much all the muscle groups, but not all of them and probably won't give you the volume you need to get an all around physique. Most people who have this split focusing on the big three often complain that they don't see muscle growth all around. You'll need more isolation for this, but if you just want to get some muscle back and slowly get back into things, this will work. It all depends on how much time you want to put in.

Nov. 7, 2016, 10:57 a.m.
Posts: 13026
Joined: Nov. 24, 2002

So you're doing a 6 day per week routine with this? This routine is great for increasing your lifts of the big three (bench, deadlift and squat), but does not constitute a full body workout by any means. The routine will hit pretty much all the muscle groups, but not all of them and probably won't give you the volume you need to get an all around physique. Most people who have this split focusing on the big three often complain that they don't see muscle growth all around. You'll need more isolation for this, but if you just want to get some muscle back and slowly get back into things, this will work. It all depends on how much time you want to put in.

Today was Day One, and it was interesting. As a warm up I did goblet squats, swings and half TGUs without any load. I squatted twenty kilos on an Olympic bar for 2x5, Deadlifted 40kg for 2x5, did bench presses with 10 for 2x5, followed by barbell rows with 10, and realized that overhead pressing is not a good idea, yet. As an active rest I did mobility work for my shoulders and back. Finished the day off with some farmer walks.

You are right, I have not really lifted any weights since last November, and I just want to get back into the swing of things.

I can imagine doing a different approach, more isolation and a bodybuilding type of program, after I have done this for some time, to be on the save side the next two to three months. I want to slightly change the individual lifts (back squat to front squat, etc.) after two or three weeks.

"You don't learn from experience. You learn from reflecting on the experience."
- Kristen Ulmer

Nov. 7, 2016, 12:39 p.m.
Posts: 1689
Joined: July 11, 2014

My experience has been that for rank newbies or folks coming back from long lay-offs/injuries who are starting with the bar/light weights, that doing the basic compound lifts for low reps sets (5x3 or 5x5) is adequate volume and stimulation for full body muscle growth. After a few months when progress slows, more focused work can be brought in as desired.

Also TGU's are awesome, I need to start doing them again.

Nov. 7, 2016, 9:04 p.m.
Posts: 1933
Joined: Nov. 23, 2002

Today was Day One, and it was interesting. As a warm up I did goblet squats, swings and half TGUs without any load. I squatted twenty kilos on an Olympic bar for 2x5, Deadlifted 40kg for 2x5, did bench presses with 10 for 2x5, followed by barbell rows with 10, and realized that overhead pressing is not a good idea, yet. As an active rest I did mobility work for my shoulders and back. Finished the day off with some farmer walks.

You are right, I have not really lifted any weights since last November, and I just want to get back into the swing of things.

I can imagine doing a different approach, more isolation and a bodybuilding type of program, after I have done this for some time, to be on the save side the next two to three months. I want to slightly change the individual lifts (back squat to front squat, etc.) after two or three weeks.

are you doing this 6 days/wk?

Luck is what happens when preparation meets opportunity ~ Seneca

Nov. 8, 2016, 3:10 p.m.
Posts: 13026
Joined: Nov. 24, 2002

are you doing this 6 days/wk?

I try, albeit with different rep and set templates throughout the week. Day Three calls for 5/3/2 reps with an increase in weight, day four and five for 2x5. The second week starts with 2x5 again, day 7 is six singles getting heavier, day 8 is one set of very light ten, day 9 is 2x5 again.

After the second week, the first two weeks are reapeated.

According to the plan the starting weight of the work sets is not fixed. It depends on the mood, the important part is to trust in the process and not really worry about the weight: "The important thing is to show up and get the movement in. If one day is too hard and compromises the next day,, that's fine as long a you lighten the load and continue getting the reps without compromising speed. […] This is a long-term approach to getting strong-don't keep testing yourself. Save the big effort for, well…never. […] Here's the secret (again): The goal of this program is to gently raise your efforts - the load - on the easy days, so the bar feels light."

EDIT: After yesterday's 5/3/2 day my body just wants to sit on the couch and drink coffee and relax. I think 5 days a week is more realistic. I just realised that the plan calls for Mon/Tue/Wed/Fri/Sat - honestly, I have not read this before. As if my eyes had been blind.

"You don't learn from experience. You learn from reflecting on the experience."
- Kristen Ulmer

May 20, 2017, 10:10 a.m.
Posts: 13026
Joined: Nov. 24, 2002

I read a snippet that stated if sprinters/runners notice their quads after a session they apparently have not worked enough with their hamstrings.

While riding my roadbike this week I realized that at times my quads hurt from pedalling, and the question popped up if this might be true for runners...is it true for cyclists as well?

Runners need to "pull" themselves forward with their hamstrings, but quads are part of the leg's muscles and cushion the impact of the landing foot (forefoot/midfoot running).

In biking we pull the pedal up, and press down with the quads.

If the quads hurt after riding but not the hammies, does that mean technique is flawed or wrong, or that the rider does need more muscle mass/strength endurance in that muscle?

"You don't learn from experience. You learn from reflecting on the experience."
- Kristen Ulmer


 Last edited by: Mic on May 20, 2017, 10:11 a.m., edited 1 time in total.
May 21, 2017, 1:32 p.m.
Posts: 1933
Joined: Nov. 23, 2002

Posted by: Mic

In biking we pull the pedal up, and press down with the quads.

We actually "press" with the glutes as well and to a more limited degree the hamstrings. The "posterior chain" works to extend the leg at the hip, whereas the quads work to extend the leg at the knee. If you picture yourself on your bike with your right leg at top of the pedal stroke, what happens if you only engage the quads? Your lower right leg will extend and your foot will be at the same level as your hips - not really conducive to an efficient or powerful pedal stroke. But what happens when you engage the posterior chain? It has the effect of pulling your leg down, much more conducive to an efficient and powerful pedal stroke. If you're not engaging your glutes and hams while pedaling then you're limiting the amount of force you can generate. The same analogy can be applied to squats where glutes and hams tend to do a bigger portion of the work than quads. This is dependent on load and upper body position though. In a more upright position the quads tend to be more dominant and  in a more bent over position the glutes and hams to more work. In lifting the upright position is typical of a high bar or front squat and the bent over position is typical of a low bar squat. This translates back to positioning on the bike. When you're upright and spinning the quads tend to be more dominant but bent over in a sprint type position the glutes and hams play a bigger factor. 

So looking at that and your question it could be that you're relying too much on the quads while pedaling.

May 21, 2017, 8:40 p.m.
Posts: 11932
Joined: June 4, 2008

Posterior-chain work is what everyone in the world should focus on.  Then bench.  Then biceps.

May 23, 2017, 9:47 a.m.
Posts: 13026
Joined: Nov. 24, 2002

Posted by: syncro

We actually "press" with the glutes as well and to a more limited degree the hamstrings. The "posterior chain" works to extend the leg at the hip, whereas the quads work to extend the leg at the knee. If you picture yourself on your bike with your right leg at top of the pedal stroke, what happens if you only engage the quads? Your lower right leg will extend and your foot will be at the same level as your hips - not really conducive to an efficient or powerful pedal stroke. But what happens when you engage the posterior chain? It has the effect of pulling your leg down, much more conducive to an efficient and powerful pedal stroke. If you're not engaging your glutes and hams while pedaling then you're limiting the amount of force you can generate. The same analogy can be applied to squats where glutes and hams tend to do a bigger portion of the work than quads. This is dependent on load and upper body position though. In a more upright position the quads tend to be more dominant and in a more bent over position the glutes and hams to more work. In lifting the upright position is typical of a high bar or front squat and the bent over position is typical of a low bar squat. This translates back to positioning on the bike. When you're upright and spinning the quads tend to be more dominant but bent over in a sprint type position the glutes and hams play a bigger factor.

So looking at that and your question it could be that you're relying too much on the quads while pedaling.

Thank you for the answer, Syncro. It did clarify quite a few points.

When I thought about it, I did not really have the glutes on my radar or even paid attention to them, but limited the pedalling movement to the quads and hams.

And ReductiMat, I am currently on a diet of Swings and Get Ups, and lots of biking. No bench pressing at all.

A few weeks ago I was at the FIBO, a tradeshow for everything rehab and fitness and bodybuilding related. That was really interesting. A strongman and a powerlifting contest was on...oh my god....never seen either one before in person, the rest was a lot of circus clowns.


 Last edited by: Mic on May 23, 2017, 9:52 a.m., edited 2 times in total.
Aug. 13, 2017, 3:08 a.m.
Posts: 2044
Joined: Jan. 5, 2010

Warming up/stretching Shoudlers

What do you guys use to stretch shoulders / warm up shoulders?
I was basically bodybuilding for 8 months and the results were pretty bad for my shoulders. I'm all-around weaker now that I'm back on the bike despite having put on a significant amount of muscle.
I'm afraid to start working out again because I seemed to do more harm than good, but I'd like to ease back into it with a more balanced workout plan and less gain-focus (more rotator cuff exercises and improving functional strength).
I have yet to find an effective warmup routine that focuses on my shoulders. Does anyone have anything that works for them?

Aug. 13, 2017, 8:21 a.m.
Posts: 1933
Joined: Nov. 23, 2002

Posted by: Cheez1ts

Warming up/stretching Shoudlers

What do you guys use to stretch shoulders / warm up shoulders?
I was basically bodybuilding for 8 months and the results were pretty bad for my shoulders. I'm all-around weaker now that I'm back on the bike despite having put on a significant amount of muscle.
I'm afraid to start working out again because I seemed to do more harm than good, but I'd like to ease back into it with a more balanced workout plan and less gain-focus (more rotator cuff exercises and improving functional strength).
I have yet to find an effective warmup routine that focuses on my shoulders. Does anyone have anything that works for them?

What do you currently do as a warm-up? I get people to do  7-10 minutes on the rowing machine as a general warm-up before hitting the weights. The rower is very effective as a warm-up b/c it provides a large range of movement that gets all your joints involved. 

In terms of shoulders b/c you mentioned body building I'm going to guess you were doing a lot of push or anterior movements and not a lot of pull or anterior movements. If you were using poor technique on certain exercises that could also add to your shoulder issues. Using good technique in a balanced program there's typically no reason as to why you should run into shoulder issues. 

What did your old program look like?

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