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strength training discussion thread

May 20, 2015, 9:17 a.m.
Posts: 0
Joined: Oct. 6, 2005

This winter I focussed on strength rather than the usual cardio or conditioning. Doing mostly a starting strength type routine I took my squat from essentially nothing having never done it to 1.5xBW or 300 lbs. While it felt good to see the numbers tick up now that I have transitioned back to outdoor activities riding, running, climbing its amazing to see how little of an effect it had on… well anything. Comparing the first few months of any season to the first few months of my post weights season my bike workouts are slower with a higher heart rate then the last few years…

Is there any non anecdotal evidence that strength training benefits other activities in otherwise fit athletic individuals?

At this point I think I am coming to the conclusion that weight lifting makes you better at …. weight lifting. And probably has its place, but that place is a couple months in the fall off season to potentially help with imbalances and injury prevention

You need to do both to get any benefit. But, if you are grunting up a steep climb, I guarantee the leg strength improvement will help.

Train cardio to get better at cardio and weights to get stronger.

May 20, 2015, 9:18 a.m.
Posts: 0
Joined: Oct. 6, 2005

This winter I focussed on strength rather than the usual cardio or conditioning. Doing mostly a starting strength type routine I took my squat from essentially nothing having never done it to 1.5xBW or 300 lbs. While it felt good to see the numbers tick up now that I have transitioned back to outdoor activities riding, running, climbing its amazing to see how little of an effect it had on… well anything. Comparing the first few months of any season to the first few months of my post weights season my bike workouts are slower with a higher heart rate then the last few years…

Is there any non anecdotal evidence that strength training benefits other activities in otherwise fit athletic individuals?

At this point I think I am coming to the conclusion that weight lifting makes you better at …. weight lifting. And probably has its place, but that place is a couple months in the fall off season to potentially help with imbalances and injury prevention

I find the weight training allows me to take a tumble and get up about as fast as I did as a teen. Now that I am 40, that is a huge benefit.

May 20, 2015, 9:19 a.m.
Posts: 7707
Joined: Sept. 11, 2003

Is there any non anecdotal evidence that strength training benefits other activities in otherwise fit athletic individuals?

No documented evidence to provide (I know its out there), but I do know it certainly helps with things like preventing soft-tissue injury.

Also, if you consider intervals, Fartleks and Tabatas (running and riding) a form of strength training (I do), they are critical components of endurance training. The point of strength training, where you do reps to exhaustion, also helps condition your body to function near or at the anaerobic threshold. This is what endurance athletes do - they push their bodies to a point just below the limit of exhaustion and hold it there for as long as they can. It is not possible to train under these conditions most of the time (most people burn out), and strength training sessions help train the body to adapt to this condition (functioning at the anaerobic threshold). The thing that many endurance athletes try to avoid with strength training is the addition of unwanted muscle mass, which becomes a weight burden.

May 20, 2015, 9:24 a.m.
Posts: 433
Joined: Jan. 31, 2005

Wait until you crash. All that power and bracing really comes in to play when you crash. When your posterior chain is strong and flexible you'll improve your chances of walking off a big crash. But yeah, anecdotal.

There's nothing better than an Orangina after cheating death with Digger.

May 20, 2015, 12:12 p.m.
Posts: 1109
Joined: Nov. 23, 2002

This winter I focussed on strength rather than the usual cardio or conditioning. Doing mostly a starting strength type routine I took my squat from essentially nothing having never done it to 1.5xBW or 300 lbs. While it felt good to see the numbers tick up now that I have transitioned back to outdoor activities riding, running, climbing its amazing to see how little of an effect it had on… well anything. Comparing the first few months of any season to the first few months of my post weights season my bike workouts are slower with a higher heart rate then the last few years…

Is there any non anecdotal evidence that strength training benefits other activities in otherwise fit athletic individuals?

At this point I think I am coming to the conclusion that weight lifting makes you better at …. weight lifting. And probably has its place, but that place is a couple months in the fall off season to potentially help with imbalances and injury prevention

the big payoff for the increased leg strength will be noticed on steep climbs or sections where you need an extra burst of speed/power. more importantly though, the effect of your strength training on your riding will depend greatly on how your strength training routine was set up - some program designs will be more beneficial than others.

as for benefits as Duncan suggested there are articles out there that list the benefits, including but not limited to agility, co-ordination, flexibility, bone density, and cardiac output. i don't have a list handy but there is info out there. again though, the benefit depends on how your training routine is designed.

for the above reasons, weight training is something that should be implemented year round in varying degrees. what you have to decide first though is what type of "athlete" you are or want to be:

- an aerobic athlete that strength trains to complement your aerobic activities
- an all around athlete that is good at many things but great at nothing
- a sport specific athlete that strength trains to complement your main focus
- a strength athlete that does aerobic activities because they are fun
- someone who just likes to do a bunch of different stuff but has no desire to push the bar with any of them

there could probably be more catergories, but the idea is that your training should work with what your main goals are. from the sounds of it a simple 2X/wk routine that has a few compound lifts and take you about 45 min to complete will give you great crossover benefits and help you with your summer suit for the beach. in the below do the paired exercises together, basically one right after the other, and then take a 2-3 min break before doing the next set of the pair. also, do a warm-up set for each exercise before doing a working set. your working sets should be at about 75-80% effort; ie on the squat for sets of 7 use a weight you could do 9-10 reps for. have your workout days set 2-3 days apart and they don't always have to be on the same day, but aim to do 4 wokouts over the course of two weeks. this gives you plenty of flexibility with your schedule.

Day 1

full body warm-up for 10min

squats 3x7
standing one arm row (not using a bench for support) 3x7

snatches 3x3
superman planks 2x9

med/close grip incline press 3x7
chin ups 3x?

Day 2

full body warm-up for 10 min

push press 3x7
weighted step ups 3x7

pull ups 3x?
weighted dips 3x7

snatch grip high pulls 3x7
weighted plank raises with a 3 sec hold at the top 2x9

context is everything

May 25, 2015, 8:28 a.m.
Posts: 557
Joined: May 27, 2009

The annoying part is that the squat and snatch are the only ones that necessitate actually going to a gym.

Don't be an engineer, every one of them I've met is socially retarded

May 25, 2015, 12:07 p.m.
Posts: 1109
Joined: Nov. 23, 2002

The annoying part is that the squat and snatch are the only ones that necessitate actually going to a gym.

not really, i'm going to guess that you're not using high enough weights so you could do those exercises at home. you could easily make a squat rack at home out of some 2x4's

you can get a 300lb olympic weight set for $350

http://www.fitnesstown.ca/All-Departments/Strength-Equipment/Olympic-Bars-Plates/300lb_Olympic_Barbell_Set/Product.aspx?ProductID=717[HTML_REMOVED]DeptID=31[HTML_REMOVED][HTML_REMOVED]

and i wouldn't worry about bumper plated for the snatches for now as i suggest to people to keep the weight light until they get really good with their technique. so you can use regular plates and just set the weight back down on the floor instead of dropping it. but if you really want bumper plates you could get a pair of 25lb ones for another $150.

http://www.fitnesstown.ca/All-Departments/Strength-Equipment/Olympic-Bars-Plates/Hi_Temp_Bumper_Plate/Product.aspx?ProductID=267[HTML_REMOVED]DeptID=31[HTML_REMOVED][HTML_REMOVED]

context is everything

May 25, 2015, 12:11 p.m.
Posts: 433
Joined: Jan. 31, 2005

The snatch is the most technical of the fast lifts. It's pretty much impossible to self-teach. If you don't know how to do it you should find a place where you can get some solid coaching. Before you spend a bunch of money on a home gym visit your local weightlifting club or Crossfit gym and get some proper instruction.

There's nothing better than an Orangina after cheating death with Digger.

May 25, 2015, 12:16 p.m.
Posts: 14537
Joined: Dec. 16, 2003

Crossfit gym and get some proper instruction.

sorry, wat?

May 25, 2015, 12:20 p.m.
Posts: 433
Joined: Jan. 31, 2005

sorry, wat?

CF hate is so boring. We get it, some CF gyms suck. Just like any other type of gym, some are good and some are bad. Go find a good one. I suggested a CF gym as an option because not every gym has bumper plates or the requisite knowledge. Every CF gym is equipped to deliver basic O-lifting instruction.

There's nothing better than an Orangina after cheating death with Digger.

May 25, 2015, 12:41 p.m.
Posts: 1109
Joined: Nov. 23, 2002

We get it, some CF gyms suck. Just like any other type of gym, some are good and some are bad.

Every CF gym is equipped to deliver basic O-lifting instruction.

these two statements do not compute.

as a recommendation to anyone, i would NOT take instruction from a trainer who has nothing more than a weekend certification from the company they work for. here is a list of clubs where you could go knowing you would get proper instruction.

https://www.bcweightlifting.ca/clubs/

context is everything

May 25, 2015, 12:49 p.m.
Posts: 433
Joined: Jan. 31, 2005

these two statements do not compute.

as a recommendation to anyone, i would NOT take instruction from a trainer who has nothing more than a weekend certification from the company they work for. here is a list of clubs where you could go knowing you would get proper instruction.

https://www.bcweightlifting.ca/clubs/

Sure they do. Many CF gyms have coaches who have extensive experience coaching powerlifting and olympic lifting. Just because the minimum CF certification is thin doesn't mean that a CF coach doesn't have a broad base of experience and certification. Again, I only mention this because CF gyms are everywhere. But that can be a hassle because they will likely want you to get all Crossfit, which you might not want to do (fair enough).

The BCWL clubs are definitely the way to go if there's one nearby.

There's nothing better than an Orangina after cheating death with Digger.

May 25, 2015, 1:24 p.m.
Posts: 1109
Joined: Nov. 23, 2002

Sure they do. Many CF gyms have coaches who have extensive experience coaching powerlifting and olympic lifting. Just because the minimum CF certification is thin doesn't mean that a CF coach doesn't have a broad base of experience and certification. Again, I only mention this because CF gyms are everywhere. But that can be a hassle because they will likely want you to get all Crossfit, which you might not want to do (fair enough).

The BCWL clubs are definitely the way to go if there's one nearby.

in your previous post in one sentence you said some cf gyms suck and in the next you said every cf gym can provide o-lifting instruction. you re-iterate the same thing here again. not every cf gym is going to be a good place to get o-lifing instruction so you can't say that you can go to any cf gym to get o-lifitng instruction.

to me it doesn't matter where someone gets their instruction, just as long as it is good. so on that basis, you can't recommend any crossfit gym for o-lifitng instruction as some of them may not do a good job of it.

the important thing here is to get some good instruction on the technical lifts where there's a greater chance of getting things wrong and possibly injuring oneself. so, ask about certifications and experience. that list i posted above is a good place to find someone qualified.

:)

context is everything

May 25, 2015, 2:47 p.m.
Posts: 433
Joined: Jan. 31, 2005

in your previous post in one sentence you said some cf gyms suck and in the next you said every cf gym can provide o-lifting instruction. you re-iterate the same thing here again. not every cf gym is going to be a good place to get o-lifing instruction so you can't say that you can go to any cf gym to get o-lifitng instruction.

to me it doesn't matter where someone gets their instruction, just as long as it is good. so on that basis, you can't recommend any crossfit gym for o-lifitng instruction as some of them may not do a good job of it.

Yikes. Ok. First, you misquoted me.

Every CF gym is equipped to deliver basic O-lifting instruction.

And this is still true. I put the word BASIC in there for a reason. You don't need to be an Olympic gold medallist or have 50 certifications to be able to safely teach the basics of lifting.

Any facility, as approved by an association or not can deliver shitty instruction. One needs to do a bit of research, spend some time in the facility, get a sense of their style, see if you think they know their stuff. Get some personal recommendations. On this basis a CF gym could deliver that. I could recommend two that would teach you anything you need to know about lifting. But I could also tell you of a few that suck. I could also do the same for some of the BCWL clubs.

Crossfit gyms teach a bunch of stuff beyond just o-lifting, and often they want to sell the whole deal. This may or may not suit a person. But the local CF gym might also be the only place nearby.

There's nothing better than an Orangina after cheating death with Digger.

May 25, 2015, 3:18 p.m.
Posts: 1109
Joined: Nov. 23, 2002

Yikes. Ok. First, you misquoted me.

ok, then please explain how "every CF is equipped to deliver basic o-lifing insruction" if "some of them are bad". those two statements are contradictory.

We get it, some CF gyms suck. Just like any other type of gym, some are good and some are bad. Go find a good one. I suggested a CF gym as an option because not every gym has bumper plates or the requisite knowledge. Every CF gym is equipped to deliver basic O-lifting instruction.

And this is still true. I put the word BASIC in there for a reason. You don't need to be an Olympic gold medallist or have 50 certifications to be able to safely teach the basics of lifting.

there is no such thing as basic o-lifting, you either get it right or you don't. basic lifitng is showing someone how to do a bicep curl, o-lifting is technical and complex.

look, i'm not saying all CF gyms are bad or can't properly teach o-lifts, but i've seen enough bad lifiting technique come out of CF due to warped training philosophies that i would not tell someone looking for instruction that _any _CF gym can do the job. some will and some won't and the same can be said for any gym.

however, if you get instruction from a bc weightlifting certified club coach you can guarantee that you will get proper instruction due to their rigorous certification process.

context is everything

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