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strength training discussion thread

Nov. 22, 2013, 12:18 p.m.
Posts: 7707
Joined: Sept. 11, 2003

Too funny… I think I'm the exact opposite of you. I'm relatively strong but struggle at climbing, both long distance and pace. Must be the slow-twitch/ fast-twitch muscle thing.

How does one counter that??

From what I understand, we each have some inherent mixed composition of fast-twitch/slow-twitch muscle fibre (say 30%/70% or 50-50 or 70-30 whatever). The composition is thought to be largely genetic but may be trainable (but probably only to a small degree and probably requiring massive amounts of training).

So that is why skinny beanpole type people (a typical slow-twitch physique) tend to gravitate towards endurance activities, where they have the edge and people with loads of fast twitch muscle will gravitate to sprinting and strength activities.

Of course this doesn't take your cardiovascular (heart and lung) potential or your inherent biomechanical efficiency (like your run gait or your pedal stroke) into consideration, which could compensate for what you lack in other areas (muscle composition, cardiovascular capability, biomechanical efficiency). For example, you would think that elite marathon runners have exceptional cardio. This is not strictly true … there are examples of elite distance runners with unexceptional cardio (as from their VO2 max measurements) but who have great "runnng economy" - their running mechanics allows them to coast at high speed with relatively little demand on their cardiovascular system.

It doesn't hurt to try to train to improve the areas that you don't excel at, but there may be a natural limit. This is where a good coach or good advice comes in.

On the topic of pump… does anyone have some good exercises to get rid of arm pump? It gets pretty bad for me on the longer descents.

What fatigues the most on descents for me is not wrist/forearms but biceps. I think the main problem is that my arms are too tense on the DH. Gotta relax to flow.

Nov. 22, 2013, 1:22 p.m.
Posts: 797
Joined: Feb. 16, 2010

this is a good thread. i've changed how i train quite a bit from when i used to train for rugby. a lot less focus on explosive power and bulk. more on stability and fine muscle control. mostly because i'm trying to keep doing what i want to, despite all of these old nagging injuries.

for example a weekly maintenance program i've been working with below. i'm working with a torn acl-meniscus and other rugby injuries. this has helped me get stronger and faster even with the acl tear. i go to do this at gym 2-3 times per week. takes about 1 hr to do including the stretches etc.

start with stretch, foam roller

Legs:
- Peterson step, standing on a wedge
- Floor glute-ham raises
- one and a quarter squats
- one-legged hamstring curl on swiss ball
- lunges with weight (straight and multi-directional)
- hamstring curl
- crab walk with therapy bands
- one-legged squats

Upper body/core:
- push-ups
- reclined pull ups
- landmine press
- one-armed dumbbell roll
- swiss ball supine lateral ball roll
- side plank
- swiss ball jack knife
- plank
- rotator cuff exercises

"You know what's wrong with Vancouver? You can't pee off of your own balcony without getting in trouble"
- Phil Gordon

Nov. 24, 2013, 11:27 a.m.
Posts: 15019
Joined: April 5, 2007

Do this
http://vitaminl.tv/video/132?ref=fbs

Why slag free swag?:rolleyes:

ummm, as your doctor i recommend against riding with a scaphoid fracture.

Nov. 24, 2013, 8:07 p.m.
Posts: 7373
Joined: Nov. 20, 2002

On the topic of pump… does anyone have some good exercises to get rid of arm pump? It gets pretty bad for me on the longer descents.

stolen from Ridemonkey.com which stole this from a motocross forum.

You'll notice a lack of exercises listed. Having stronger arms likely isn't a bad thing, but if you just hold on tighter….well it really isnt going to help at all.Arm pump in moto is a big deal and i would say in all the years riding, arm pump from MTB is a fraction of what it is for Moto and more specifically Motocross racing.

"ontop of just "riding more" here are some sweet tips i got from some motocross forum

very good read

On the bike:

1. Don’t hold the handlebar grips so tightly: If you are holding on to the handlebars with a death-grip, you are sure to get arm pump. Relax your hold. Flow with the bike, dont fight it. Learn to absorb bumps with your entire body being relaxed, not tense.

2. Grip the bike with your legs: Besides reducing arm pump, gripping the dirt bike with your legs instead of your hands, can greatly improve balance and speed. By gripping the tank with your knees you do not need to hold your handlebars so tightly.

3. Breathe, relax and have fun: State of mind is critical to reducing arm pump. Ever notice that you never get arm pump while practicing hard for hours, yet it’s an immediate factor at a 20 minute race? That’s because you are tensing up and stiff, and not breathing oxygen into your lungs, hence into your blood. Relax. Don’t hold your breathe. Breathe deeply and remind yourself to have fun while riding!

4. Ride more often: This is the most common solution given by motocross trainers. Probably because it forces all these tips to occur naturally. By riding often your body not only gets the consistent cardio workout part executed, but riding often also trains your muscles to oxygenate themselves during intense activity too. Best of all, riding more often will help you become a better, smoother rider, allowing the forearm muscles to do less work.

5. Avoid ‘wrist restriction’: Often overlooked, it is important not to restrict your wrists movement or blood-flow with overly tight jersey cuffs or glove closures. Less blood flowing through your wrist, means less blood flowing through your forearms. Keep your Velcro glove closures loose.

6. Buy quality aftermarket products designed to help: There are several high quality products on the market that have proven to reduce rider fatigue and arm pump. Steering dampers, anti vibration handlebars, impact absorbing handlebar gel, and newer grip design, can all reduce arm pump. ChronicMX has done product reviews on most of these with positive results (See product reviews).

7. Ensure proper bike settings: Suspension, Handlebar choice, and lever positioning must be properly set for each rider’s custom weight, height, skill level, comfort and terrain. Incorrect settings will lead to the need for an increased grip on the handlebars, causing arm fatigue and creating a higher likelihood of arm pump.

Off the bike:

8. Follow a weekly cardio workout program: Cardiovascular exercise increases your body’s ability to replenish muscles with oxygen. By teaching the muscles to replenish themselves with a fresh supply of oxygenated blood during stress, arm pump becomes greatly reduced.

9. Take supplements: It is very important to keep your body’s level of minerals and nutrients high, so that it can replenish itself during intense cardio exercise. Numerous companies make supplements that include minerals such as magnesium, that have been proven to work well in combating arm pump. Some even help break up lactic acid build up. Cytomax is a chosen favorite amongst motocrossers .so is taking a small dose of aspirin as a blood thinner.

10. Drink more H20: Staying hydrated is a critical factor for obvious reasons. Dehydration can lead to muscle cramps and fatigue. Not only will drinking more water help reduce arm pump, but it can improve the body’s ability to absorb critical minerals and prevent heat stroke too.

11. Do 15 minutes of cardio exercise just prior to riding: This is critical and one of the most important factors in reducing arm pump. Raising your heart rate prior to your first moto or ride is a guaranteed way to increase blood flow throughout your body and hence, prevent arm pump. This is why you see the pros doing jumping jacks or riding stationary bicycles just before the start of each moto."

Nov. 24, 2013, 9:20 p.m.
Posts: 10970
Joined: June 4, 2008

1. Don’t hold the handlebar grips so tightly: If you are holding on to the handlebars with a death-grip, you are sure to get arm pump. Relax your hold. Flow with the bike, dont fight it. Learn to absorb bumps with your entire body being relaxed, not tense.

7. Ensure proper bike settings: Suspension, Handlebar choice, and lever positioning must be properly set for each rider’s custom weight, height, skill level, comfort and terrain. Incorrect settings will lead to the need for an increased grip on the handlebars, causing arm fatigue and creating a higher likelihood of arm pump.

These two things were my tonic for getting rid of the claw. FWIW, as someone who loves deadlifting, my grip strength is above average and made relatively no difference to the two things above.

Dec. 2, 2013, 6:31 p.m.
Posts: 0
Joined: Oct. 6, 2005

These two things were my tonic for getting rid of the claw. FWIW, as someone who loves deadlifting, my grip strength is above average and made relatively no difference to the two things above.

'Fess up, you are using these on the bike. ;-)

Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk

Dec. 3, 2013, 11:41 a.m.
Posts: 1378
Joined: May 23, 2006

so wrist curls with your hands in a pronated position; sit down with your forearms resting on your thighs so that your palms are facing the floor. use dumbells and i'd suggest a rep range of 15, 9, 5, 9. do this twice a week in your training program..

Carpel tunnel?

“.....with a malevolent fascist swine atop its titular apex, the pitiful wounded beast of a rotten, spiritually dead American Superpower is careening towards epic barbarism while pushing the species dangerously to the tipping points of extinction.”

Dec. 3, 2013, 1:20 p.m.
Posts: 3518
Joined: May 27, 2008

I've always done crossfit style exercises off and on but I've had a hard time getting into a routine. I really have no excuse either as I'm in a job that provides me time to work out, with one medocre gym in my building and one really nice gym the next building over. That one has a pool, hot tub and personal trainers that I'm going to use more often. I did some olympic lifting today over lunch and swam a couple of km yesterday so it's a good start. All I need to do now is keep on track.

Being cheap is OK. Being a clueless sanctimonious condescending douchebag is just Vlad's MO.

Dec. 3, 2013, 4:46 p.m.
Posts: 1058
Joined: Nov. 23, 2002

Carpel tunnel?

if you're asking if one could you get carpal tunnel syndrome from doing wrist curls a couple times per week then the answer would be no. carpal tunnel is a repetitive strain injury.

context is everything

Dec. 3, 2013, 4:50 p.m.
Posts: 10970
Joined: June 4, 2008

Here's a great (IMO) piece on Crossfit by a long time man of the barbell.

Here's what you need to know…

• CrossFit has done an incredibly good job at popularizing tough training using barbells.

• CrossFit is fine "Exercise" but it's not "Training". The undoubtedly impressive CrossFit Games athletes don't use CrossFit programming.

• There are good and bad CrossFit coaches, but the certification farm CrossFit has become often produces more bad than good.

CrossFit: The Good, Bad, and the Ugly

Dec. 3, 2013, 5:59 p.m.
Posts: 1058
Joined: Nov. 23, 2002

I've always done crossfit style exercises off and on but I've had a hard time getting into a routine. I really have no excuse either as I'm in a job that provides me time to work out, with one medocre gym in my building and one really nice gym the next building over. That one has a pool, hot tub and personal trainers that I'm going to use more often. I did some olympic lifting today over lunch and swam a couple of km yesterday so it's a good start. All I need to do now is keep on track.

sounds like what you'd benefit the most from is setting up a training schedule. i see it over and over; people that have no set schedule or training targets tend to get poor results as their training has no focus or consistency.

i've found for people with busy lives and lots of other activities a full body workout done 2-3 times per week can yeild decent results if a good group of exercises are selected. to get the most from this though you should track your workouts and have a plan for shifting training variables such as sets/reps or intensity/volume. if you just go to the gym and do whatever, you'll get whatever type of results.

for someone in your situation i've been a fan of 9 week routines run two or three times until your ready for something more advanced. something like this would be a good base to follow:

whatever you decide to do, make sure you have a plan.

edit - interesting timing with the link RM provided as it covers similar ideas.

context is everything

Dec. 3, 2013, 6:01 p.m.
Posts: 0
Joined: Oct. 6, 2005

Here's a great (IMO) piece on Crossfit by a long time man of the barbell.

CrossFit: The Good, Bad, and the Ugly

Good article. I have been doing crossfit for a few months to use as motivation to get back into the gym.

It is fun and is great cardio in the sense that your HR is elevated the whole time. However, a lot of the exercises are just plain stupid and hurt your joints. The kipping pullups and the butterfly too.

I was actually getting weaker on it as 50 by 5000 reps of something may not achieve actual strength.

So, for another change of pace I hired a top north american bodybuilder as a trainer. I have to weigh in and report on my work for the week and let her tell me what I need to do to get bigger, stronger and more ripped. Seems far more efficient to me also.

Weight training will be far more interesting with a set and defined goal.

Dec. 3, 2013, 6:18 p.m.
Posts: 1058
Joined: Nov. 23, 2002

I was actually getting weaker on it as 50 by 5000 reps of something may not achieve actual strength.

once you start getting north of 7 reps the effect of building strength declines significantly.

context is everything

Dec. 3, 2013, 6:33 p.m.
Posts: 10970
Joined: June 4, 2008

Weight training will be far more interesting with a set and defined goal.

Without that, things are a waste of time for me, relative to the results I get when I have those clear goals.

Dec. 3, 2013, 6:36 p.m.
Posts: 10970
Joined: June 4, 2008

One thing regarding scheduling that I didn't see until much later is that there is nothing magical about arranging it around seven days.

It might make sense to schedule your cycle around 14 days, or 10 days or 4 days for that matter.

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