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Healthy eating

Dec. 27, 2013, 11:48 a.m.
Posts: 1058
Joined: Nov. 23, 2002

My wife is starting to read one book after the other on sugars, starches, wheat, and the like.
Most of the readers of this thread know most important things about sugars and starches and how we are all fooled by the food industry, the governments (same in Germany as in the US, recommended healthy diet is based on Carbs…) and most doctors.

Currently we are on the road to a modified Paleo Diet in which our only carbs come from veggies and fruits, along with fibers and protein.

sounds like a good idea and i'm curious to hear what you think a paleo diet should look like. depending on where one lives, what makes up a paleo diet or a local/natural diet can look very different - ie living in the tropics vs living in the north.

wrt carbs, i think it's easy to underestimate the amount of carbs we can get from veggies and fruits. also, don't necessarily count rice or other "grains" like quinoa (quinoa is a seed) out either.

context is everything

Dec. 27, 2013, 5:27 p.m.
Posts: 4631
Joined: July 23, 2004

My wife is starting to read one book after the other on sugars, starches, wheat, and the like.
Most of the readers of this thread know most important things about sugars and starches and how we are all fooled by the food industry, the governments (same in Germany as in the US, recommended healthy diet is based on Carbs…) and most doctors.

Currently we are on the road to a modified Paleo Diet in which our only carbs come from veggies and fruits, along with fibers and protein.

hey, Mic…this might be something of interest (if you hadnt already mentioned/found/read it)…

https://home.trainingpeaks.com/blog/article/a-quick-guide-to-the-paleo-diet-for-athletes

Loud Hubs Save Lives

Dec. 27, 2013, 9:58 p.m.
Posts: 0
Joined: Oct. 6, 2005

My wife is starting to read one book after the other on sugars, starches, wheat, and the like.
Most of the readers of this thread know most important things about sugars and starches and how we are all fooled by the food industry, the governments (same in Germany as in the US, recommended healthy diet is based on Carbs…) and most doctors.

Currently we are on the road to a modified Paleo Diet in which our only carbs come from veggies and fruits, along with fibers and protein.

I am of the mind that a person can eat a perfectly fine diet on wheat, cards and the like.

Having read wheat belly and avoiding wheat with no effect I found it was like most other fads.

Carbs, including wheat, search things like potato and pastas are very, very easy to way over board on portion sizes.

For instance, many here eat oatmeal regularly. Now, I do to, but I would eye ball about a cup pre cooked and throw in a banana and some peanut butter for them good healthy fats.

Well, if you look at the portion size the calories are based on, most are 30 grams at 120 or so calories.

This is less that a 1/4 cup uncooked. A minuscule amount everyone would scoff at. However, I was downing almost 500 calories of just oatmeal. Add another 150 for a sugary banana and another 120 for 1 tablespoons of peanut butter and I was at 770 calories before the cup of coffee with cream.

My breakfasts were almost always 1,000 calories and I thought I was eating light.

This is the same for any if the other low whatever diets and Gluten free paleo and so on.

To actually eat well and healthy you need to weigh all your stuff and know how many of what kind of calories you are eating.

All the other stuff matters, but not as much as this.

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Dec. 28, 2013, 11:19 a.m.
Posts: 12656
Joined: Nov. 24, 2002

I am of the mind that a person can eat a perfectly fine diet on wheat, cards and the like.

Having read wheat belly and avoiding wheat with no effect I found it was like most other fads.

Carbs, including wheat, search things like potato and pastas are very, very easy to way over board on portion sizes.

For instance, many here eat oatmeal regularly. Now, I do to, but I would eye ball about a cup pre cooked and throw in a banana and some peanut butter for them good healthy fats.

Well, if you look at the portion size the calories are based on, most are 30 grams at 120 or so calories.

This is less that a 1/4 cup uncooked. A minuscule amount everyone would scoff at. However, I was downing almost 500 calories of just oatmeal. Add another 150 for a sugary banana and another 120 for 1 tablespoons of peanut butter and I was at 770 calories before the cup of coffee with cream.

My breakfasts were almost always 1,000 calories and I thought I was eating light.

This is the same for any if the other low whatever diets and Gluten free paleo and so on.

To actually eat well and healthy you need to weigh all your stuff and know how many of what kind of calories you are eating.

All the other stuff matters, but not as much as this.

Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk

I agree that after cleaning up one's act, anybody interested in seriously eating healthy and as natural as possible has to weigh portions.

Currently we are on the road of eliminating all excess starches (Bread, rice, pasta, potatoes) except fruits and vegetables. It seems as if certain bodies may react different to starches, and I "function" and feel better if I do not eat any bread and the like. I think the amount of starches as mentioned above I would need would hover around the 80 to 100 grams per day mark.

Still, if I want to loose body fat, I think there is no better way than radically reducing the amount of starchy food and eat a lot of fresh fruits, vegetables and lean protein.

As with everything in life it all depends on a person's goals.

Oatmeal is definitely the one thing I do eat on a regular basis, it helps me have a good time while commuting to work by bike, and completels satiates me.

My wife and I are experimenting with what is working and what is not. Of course we need to fine tune the details, but for someone who refused to listen to me for what feels like eternity, my wife's new found waking-up is just fun to experiment.

Legatt, you are aware that a calorie as a unit is not necessarily the same, depending on the food, right? I deduct from your posts that you are quite well-informed and inquisitive.

"You don't learn from experience. You learn from reflecting on the experience."
- Kristen Ulmer

Dec. 28, 2013, 12:27 p.m.
Posts: 0
Joined: Oct. 6, 2005

Legatt, you are aware that a calorie as a unit is not necessarily the same, depending on the food, right? I deduct from your posts that you are quite well-informed and inquisitive.

Certainly, that's why I wrote what kind of calories.

Maintaining a stable blood sugar level is key to not loading up the body fat. But, I am an expert in getting fat. My absolute favourite meal is a peanut butter and honey sandwich washed down by a chocolate milk. ;-)

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Dec. 28, 2013, 2:48 p.m.
Posts: 1584
Joined: June 20, 2003

Why does the general population feel they need to avoid bread completely? I understand avoiding over processed plain white bread but why not just try a sprouted grain bread?

Dec. 28, 2013, 2:49 p.m.
Posts: 1584
Joined: June 20, 2003

or brown rice instead of white? or a flax and whole grain pasta instead of plain?

Dec. 28, 2013, 3:24 p.m.
Posts: 0
Joined: Oct. 6, 2005

Why does the general population feel they need to avoid bread completely? I understand avoiding over processed plain white bread but why not just try a sprouted grain bread?

Breads are made from wheat and wheat from Satan.

I agree completely. Nothing wrong with whole grain breads.

It is not how much you eat that is the problem is has to be something else to blame.

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Dec. 28, 2013, 3:26 p.m.
Posts: 1876
Joined: March 2, 2006

Bread is highly processed and as such, I avoid it. Starchy carbs are included in every meal, though as active people need both starchy and fibrous carbs. I wish there was a better distinction between grain and potatoes as carbs and donut carbs. Paleo makes me laugh, back then people were most likely eating bugs and roots, mostly starchy carbs an very little protien and the protien would have been full fat.

Grumpy Trail Builder in Training

Dec. 28, 2013, 5:31 p.m.
Posts: 1713
Joined: Dec. 31, 2006

I'm trying a lower gluten diet to see how that works. I'm pretty sure my diet was very high in gluten before and I'm trying to balance things out rather than comepletely omit something. Life's about balance, right?

Dec. 28, 2013, 6:14 p.m.
Posts: 10309
Joined: Nov. 20, 2002

Probably the best way to go is to experiment and RECORD what you're eating and how you feel that day. Analyze what actually makes a difference.

If you want to be really anal about it that is.

Check my stuff for sale!

Dec. 28, 2013, 6:41 p.m.
Posts: 1713
Joined: Dec. 31, 2006

I'll never switch to brown rice though, that crap is gross.

Dec. 29, 2013, 10:56 a.m.
Posts: 7707
Joined: Sept. 11, 2003

hey, Mic…this might be something of interest (if you hadnt already mentioned/found/read it)…

https://home.trainingpeaks.com/blog/article/a-quick-guide-to-the-paleo-diet-for-athletes

From the article above:

Serious athletes, however, when it comes to immediately before, during, and directly after workouts, need to bend the rules of the Paleo Diet a bit since we're placing demands on the body that were not normal for our Stone Age ancestors … During long or hard workouts and races you will need to take in high glycemic index carbohydrates mostly in the form of fluids. Sports drinks are fine.

Confused? Does this mean that a Stone Age person couldn't/didn't perform aerobic activities lasting for more than an hour? Debatable - some stone age hunting cultures still practice "persistence hunting" … (go to 2:00 if you don't have the attention span our ancestors had required to track an animal) …

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=826HMLoiE_o
I think eating veggies, fruits and lean meat is good, but the central dogma of the Paleo Diet is confused. There is a huge element of common-sense to the notion of a Paleo diet, but the there is no one "Paleo diet". The "Paleo diet" fad is based almost solely on the diets (or presumed diets) of the ice-age inhabitants of northern latitudes where big game constituted the bulk of people's diets. People in different parts of the world have always tended to have different diets.

The "Paleo diet" is itself merely an adaptation to environment (whether is the Arctic or the Amazon), just as we are adapting to the diet/lifestyle of the 21st century. The idea that there is some "ideal" diet genetically programmed into us has no scientific basis. Adaptability is the trump card of any successful species. All living things are dependent on their environment to meet their dietary needs (whether its wild apples in the Ural mountains or fresh guavas flown from California). Transporting living organisms to alien environments and seeing them thrive on local alien diets is hardly unheard of - eg red deer in New Zealand and rabbits in Australia.

How does the Paleo Diet square with the Mediterranean diet - high consumption of olive oil, legumes, unrefined cereals, fruits, and vegetables, moderate to high consumption of fish, moderate consumption of dairy products? How could fish and dairy be good for you, right? Subsistence-level fishing, vegetable oil and dairy are more recent than the presumed 100,000 year timeframe where we "evolved" into the Paleo diet.

Dec. 29, 2013, 1:05 p.m.
Posts: 1713
Joined: Dec. 31, 2006

For the guy who says pork had no nutritional value: http://www.organicfacts.net/nutrition-facts/animal-products/nutritional-value-of-beef-and-pork.html

Dec. 29, 2013, 1:12 p.m.
Posts: 1058
Joined: Nov. 23, 2002

….

yup. so while a plaeo type diet does have some merits, it is not the be all and end all. further the idea that one has to take in high glycemic carbs or drinks to complete an endurance race is not altogether accurate. the human body is great at adapting to it's energy requirements (intake and output)

The Case for Glycogen Depleted Long Runs

The theory behind running your long runs on low glycogen stores is that by not having readily available muscle glycogen to burn, you body is forced burn fat. Consequently, your body will become more efficient at using fat as a fuel source. The real question is, does this theory hold true?

A recent study conducted in New Zealand showed that cyclists who completed exercise early in the morning without eating breakfast (fasted state) improved muscle glycogen stores by as much as 50% over the group that ate breakfast before their exercise. Similar studies have made it clear that occasional fasting before exercise can improve glycogen storage and endurance performance.

However, other studies have gone further and tested the effects of training with low glycogen levels for more than one run or for extended periods of time. The research concludes that extended carbohydrate depletion impairs performance and does not enhance fat utilization.

The research makes a strong case that occasional long runs in a fasted state will improve glycogen storage and fat utilization, but extended training or multiple long runs in the fasted state will impair performance and does not provide further benefits to fat utilization.

from here:
http://runnersconnect.net/running-training-articles/cience-of-bonking-and-glycogen-depletion/

context is everything

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