XO1 Eagle shifting is stiff.

I have two XO1 drivetrains. The five year old one on the hardtail is like butter. The four year old one is quite stiff across all cogs but especially downshifting to the 42 and 50. If I detach the cable the shifter and housing seem fine. Cable and housing are about a month old and cassette, chain and ring 3 weeks. The derailleur seems to go across its full range by hand when the wheel is out. Lubricated pivots, changed just the cable last night, fiddled with b tension back and forth with the red spacing tool and without just to see. The hardtail housing curves around the left side smoothly then a straight shot down the top tube and seat tube to the derailleur. The Trek Remedy is inside the downtube, gently up and over the bb shell into the chainstay but the exit to the derailleur seems a bit tight to me. But it is what it is. I don’t recall the shifting being this bad when new. It was always a bit stiffer than the Chameleon I think because of the cable routing. When I shoved the new cable down the three week old housing I preceded that with a little tri flow and the cable went in easily all the way. Cleaned and lubed the roll a ma jig too. I might remove the housing and set it up again just to see what a straight line routing might do. 

Any other suggestions?

Did they shift like that from new ? It may sound like voodoo but IME some gear changers just don't feel all that good and i don't know why

Right now I'm finding, be it  SRAM or Shimano all the gear in the last few  years is in fact pretty good ime

Downshift problems makes me think cables, somehow? Housing few weeks old and a fresh cable though, hmm.

Shimano housing and cable? Btw I was always told to run the cables dry to avoid contamination.

Just pulled the Jagwire housing and cables off mine for Shimano, massive difference.

My Sram stuff was much more tolerant of cable issues than Shimano because of the straighter routing through the rollamajig though.

Hanger straight?

Posted by: Hepcat

Downshift problems makes me think cables, somehow? Housing few weeks old and a fresh cable though, hmm.

Shimano housing and cable? Btw I was always told to run the cables dry to avoid contamination.

Just pulled the Jagwire housing and cables off mine for Shimano, massive difference.

My Sram stuff was much more tolerant of cable issues than Shimano because of the straighter routing through the rollamajig though.

Hanger straight?

Same here. Yeah hanger is straight. I checked that too. With no wheel in the derailleurs on each bike feel the same when pushed in by hand. Upshifting (to higher gears) is perfect. If I could get Shimano housing I would. No one carries  it it seems. Just Jagwire. Must be cable and housing. I’ll change it tomorrow and see. There are threaded holes under the top tube for bolt on crap. I’ll bet I can fashion some cable guides from thin plastic and zip tie the balance along the seat stay and see if that’s any better. 

XXX I can’t remember if the bike shifted like the hardtail when new. It’s four and a half years and I can’t remember. I think the hardtail has always been better. It has perfect routing really.

B tension?

Andy says thoroughly fiddled with B in first post.

Was the cable hard to pull out like it was gummed up? Thinking if you lubed original cable too maybe it's fouled up inside the housing...

Trumpstinyhands or some other ace mechanic here surely knows the answer and is watching the punters punt lol.

Posted by: Kenny

B tension?

Yeah. I let the air out of the shock, squish to about 30% and lay and floor with my light and set it. It must be cable and housing. Each individual component seems fine when tested by itself even the cable and housing but I think sometimes what feels good in the hand sometimes is enough perhaps combined with something else to make it feel like crap. I’ll get new housing and cables today later and see.

Posted by: Hepcat

Andy says thoroughly fiddled with B in first post.

Was the cable hard to pull out like it was gummed up? Thinking if you lubed original cable too maybe it's fouled up inside the housing...

Trumpstinyhands or some other ace mechanic here surely knows the answer and is watching the punters punt lol.

LOL thanks ha ha.

I find cable issues show themselves more clearly when shifting from low to high as the friction is fighting the spring in the derailleur and slowing down or stopping the shift.

You'll potentially waste some time and inner cables, but you could always swap parts from one bike to another seeing that everything is the same. By a process of elimination you'll figure out which part is the issue. I know the derailleur pivots were lubed but it could be rough pivots from wear / age. Is there much play in the derailleur? Could even a worn shifter.

I've owned three Treks in recent years, and while the housing angle going into the derailleur has a significant bend, I've never found it to be an issue. Worth minimizing the bend as much as possible though. B tension isn't going to create stiff shifting, unless the derailleur is sitting so high that the pulley wheel / chain is hitting the next biggest sprocket on the down shift, but that will probably sound pretty obvious when happening.

So I'm gonna say derailleur based on the info at hand (assuming the cable / housing is installed correctly with no kinks etc) but I could be completely wrong!

Edit - how does the clutch feel on both derailleurs? A stiff clutch will result in stiff shifting from high to low gears. More obvious on Shimano derailleurs with adjustable clutches and the ability to turn them off. Servicing a clutch on a Shimano derailleur will lighten the shifting, but you can't do that with Sram.

Oh yeah. The clutch. The stiff shifting derailleur’s clutch is stiffer. I think back in the spring one of the derailleurs had a stiff clutch. I removed the cover and dribbled some oil in it and worked it back and forth a bunch. I’ll try again and if not maybe source out a derailleur. I got a couple cables and actual Shimano housing to try too.

I worked a little Prolink into the clutch. Type 3 so there’s a plastic cover that comes off. It’s smother now and with actual Shimano housing and new cable it’s like buttah as it should be. Thanks for the back up folks.