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Wide Rim Revolution or Fad?

May 9, 2015, 11:14 p.m.
Posts: 3518
Joined: May 27, 2008

Clarklewis nails it. Plus Pinkbike covered this years ago..
http://www.pinkbike.com/news/Tech-Tuesday--Wider-Rims-Are-Better-and-Why-Tubeless-Tires-Burp-.html

Being cheap is OK. Being a clueless sanctimonious condescending douchebag is just Vlad's MO.

May 10, 2015, 11:46 a.m.
Posts: 2121
Joined: Nov. 6, 2005

Listen to this guy. Wide hookless = low pressure and amazing traction. With no tubes.

And no tubes saves a pound off the rolling mass at the outer diameter of the tire.

A minion 2.5 on a Noble 35 mm internal width rim is actually 2.6 at about 24 psi according to said micrometer.

The wider rims are also coming out with offset spoke holes now, adding to a stiffer wheel.

For the record, I run 20 psi tubeless, am of above average mass, and have never burped a tire.

That could be because I use Slime Pro instead of Stans and I also lube my bead with the Slime before seating them. Never had a problem seating them with a foot pump and I've done 6 sets of tires.

Never a single burp.

Nothing beats 18~20 psi on wet slippery winter rides. On a gravel trail, one time I lowered them to 14 psi and the gravel marbles became grippy again as the tire contoured the surface so well.

I guess I'm in the revolution camp. Not a fad. I have an extra set of skinny 'the old normal' wheels. I'm saving them for a quasi-xc-street setup.

Didn't know NOBL sold a rim with a 35mm internal width… website says 31mm internal, 38mm external? And definitely lighter wide options out there for less money.

May 10, 2015, 1:22 p.m.
Posts: 2313
Joined: Sept. 18, 2008

The bigger question is, why would want to run low pressure? Unless you were riding at ultra slow speeds? Not only that but the holes you'd put through the tires.

I can run 23 front, 27 rear (down 5 psi each) with no squirming/rolling sensation. It feels a lot smoother in rough terrain, and there's significantly more traction braking, cornering, and climbing. No burping (surprising). Full speed riding, more control. Holes in tires still happen in Pemby, it's inevitable, less common with dh tires though.

May 10, 2015, 4:22 p.m.
Posts: 2406
Joined: Sept. 5, 2012

The bigger question is, why would want to run low pressure? Unless you were riding at ultra slow speeds? Not only that but the holes you'd put through the tires.

i still run tubes and i run 32/35 lbs with a 26x2.35 tire on a Spank OOZY rims , some of the guys i ride with run low to mid 20,s for psi , i run that low and i flat spot the rims and get flats .

#northsidetrailbuilders

May 10, 2015, 5:06 p.m.
Posts: 967
Joined: Feb. 28, 2014

i still run tubes and i run 32/35 lbs with a 26x2.35 tire on a Spank OOZY rims , some of the guys i ride with run low to mid 20,s for psi , i run that low and i flat spot the rims and get flats .

Tubes with 32/35 is pretty darn firm. I run about the same but tubeless. I will still pinch flat my tires occasionally. I can away with high 20's if I'm just doing more xc stuff, but any time there are rocks involved I need to up the pressure. I have the same rims, they seem to be pretty good so far. A lot better than the Arch Ex's I had previously.

I'm "only" 175lbs though.

May 10, 2015, 7 p.m.
Posts: 2406
Joined: Sept. 5, 2012

Tubes with 32/35 is pretty darn firm. I run about the same but tubeless. I will still pinch flat my tires occasionally. I can away with high 20's if I'm just doing more xc stuff, but any time there are rocks involved I need to up the pressure. I have the same rims, they seem to be pretty good so far. A lot better than the Arch Ex's I had previously.

I'm "only" 175lbs though.

i,m over 200lbs with all my gear on .

i am very happy with the OOZY rims very light and durable , they have a 2nd version of the OOZY the 295 series they are wider and taller .

http://spank-ind.com/products/rim/oozy-trail295-bead-bite-rim

i will use those for my 167 when i build up a lighter set to replace the current set which i stole off my other Process .

#northsidetrailbuilders

May 10, 2015, 7:40 p.m.
Posts: 15561
Joined: May 29, 2004

you can run lower pressure (5-ish psi) without the tire feeling like its "rolling" during cornering - more traction, smoother ride. that's it.

If you think You can feel your tire rolling…..you're going too slow.

May 12, 2015, 9:43 a.m.
Posts: 5738
Joined: May 28, 2005

Professional bike racers of all stripes for a long time have run what their sponsors pay them to run.

good point

a few companies (ibis, specialized) have wider rims in the game, but the big guys who sponsor the big teams/riders - mavic, easton, etc. - have so far been content to sit on the sidelines and wait to see if, as the thread asks, wider rims are the new normal or a passing fad

which if you step back a bit is really weird. because most companies of any size in the bike industry are jumping on every new standard or bandwagon before most consumers have even tried it - let alone asked for it, or started voting with their $

if, as this thread and cam suggest, "those who purchased wide rims think much of wide rims," why aren't the big players giving the people what they want; what incentive do they have to keep their rims narrow, or drag their heels on going wide(r)?

"Nobody really gives a shit that you don't like the thing that you have no firsthand experience with." Dave

May 12, 2015, 9:53 a.m.
Posts: 2121
Joined: Nov. 6, 2005

good point

a few companies (ibis, specialized) have wider rims in the game, but the big guys who sponsor the big teams/riders - mavic, easton, etc. - have so far been content to sit on the sidelines and wait to see if, as the thread asks, wider rims are the new normal or a passing fad

which if you step back a bit is really weird. because most companies of any size in the bike industry are jumping on every new standard or bandwagon before most consumers have even tried it - let alone asked for it, or started voting with their $

if, as this thread and cam suggest, "those who purchased wide rims think much of wide rims," why aren't the big players giving the people what they want; what incentive do they have to keep their rims narrow, or drag their heels on going wide(r)?

Well, another good point… I think with companies like Mavic they are continuing to eschew the wide rim philosophy because they have stated that they are sticking with their Maxtal alloy instead of going to carbon for mtb wheels and to make a wide Maxtal rim would make it too heavy for racers… this is my reading between the lines at least in Mavic's case. Clearly if you look at companies like Enve it is possible to make a decently wide rim and keep it very light at least with carbon.

May 12, 2015, 9:56 a.m.
Posts: 803
Joined: Jan. 31, 2005

Well, another good point… I think with companies like Mavic they are continuing to eschew the wide rim philosophy because they have stated that they are sticking with their Maxtal alloy instead of going to carbon for mtb wheels and to make a wide Maxtal rim would make it too heavy for racers… this is my reading between the lines at least in Mavic's case. Clearly if you look at companies like Enve it is possible to make a decently wide rim and keep it very light at least with carbon.

It might also be that Mavic is heavily invested in alloy. They have a ton of legacy tooling and materials to support. They have a lot of skin in the old game. It's similar to cameras: Canon and Nikon are huge in the DSLR concept but newer companies that aren't burdened with any of that history went straight to 4/3 and micro 4/3.

TL;DR I bet if Mavic was starting from scratch they'd build in carbon.

There's nothing better than an Orangina after cheating death with Digger.

May 12, 2015, 10:10 a.m.
Posts: 5738
Joined: May 28, 2005

I think with companies like Mavic they are continuing to eschew the wide rim philosophy because they have stated that they are sticking with their Maxtal alloy instead of going to carbon for mtb wheels and to make a wide Maxtal rim would make it too heavy for racers…

i don't know about that

last year mavic's "enduro specific" wheelset boasted a 21mm wide front rim. i'm sure its wicked light, but plenty of pro's on the ews are running flow ex's, and several companies (pacenti, wtb, dt swiss) have been able to develop alloy rims with pretty much the same weight to width ratio

is maxtal radically different than normal aluminum, preventing mavic from going any wider (seriously - i have no idea). if not, seems like they are deliberately running against the trend

"Nobody really gives a shit that you don't like the thing that you have no firsthand experience with." Dave

May 12, 2015, 10:34 a.m.
Posts: 486
Joined: April 11, 2011

good point

a few companies (ibis, specialized) have wider rims in the game, but the big guys who sponsor the big teams/riders - mavic, easton, etc. - have so far been content to sit on the sidelines and wait to see if, as the thread asks, wider rims are the new normal or a passing fad

which if you step back a bit is really weird. because most companies of any size in the bike industry are jumping on every new standard or bandwagon before most consumers have even tried it - let alone asked for it, or started voting with their $

if, as this thread and cam suggest, "those who purchased wide rims think much of wide rims," why aren't the big players giving the people what they want; what incentive do they have to keep their rims narrow, or drag their heels on going wide(r)?

I can't keep up with the differing definitions of wide, but didn't Easton just release a 30mm internal width?

Edit:
ARCs

May 12, 2015, 10:40 a.m.
Posts: 2121
Joined: Nov. 6, 2005

i don't know about that

last year mavic's "enduro specific" wheelset boasted a 21mm wide front rim. i'm sure its wicked light, but plenty of pro's on the ews are running flow ex's, and several companies (pacenti, wtb, dt swiss) have been able to develop alloy rims with pretty much the same weight to width ratio

is maxtal radically different than normal aluminum, preventing mavic from going any wider (seriously - i have no idea). if not, seems like they are deliberately running against the trend

Maybe its Mavic's UST only philosophy that would make the rim too heavy if it was a lot wider? Don't know.. but they do have a 23mm internal width rim now in their Crossmax lineup, whoohoo… still I am sure that they could get a 25 or 27mm internal width UST rim without much of a weight penalty.

May 12, 2015, 12:16 p.m.
Posts: 828
Joined: June 29, 2006

The Mavic EX823 was pretty heavy though. But also very, very tough.

Had a set back in the days…
Crazy stiff for alloy.

May 12, 2015, 12:35 p.m.
Posts: 0
Joined: Sept. 20, 2006

if, as this thread and cam suggest, "those who purchased wide rims think much of wide rims," why aren't the big players giving the people what they want; what incentive do they have to keep their rims narrow, or drag their heels on going wide(r)?

I think the jury is still out on wide rims because of an existing historical bias towards weight and placing actual ride quality at the low end of priorities. Just read a german magazine where wheelsets are rated purely on data points rather than actual user experience. The tide is slowly changing though.

Also, prudent manufacturers are waiting for the small guys to do all the experimenting and see where the pendulum swings back to determine what the correct width to make rims at. Typical really with alot of new ideas.

plenty of pro's on the ews are running flow ex's, and several companies (pacenti, wtb, dt swiss) have been able to develop alloy rims with pretty much the same weight to width ratio

I do know that our Enduro team prefers to run Arch EX rims. Strange, but the strength to weight ratio is what they prefer for a race wheelset. They have the option to go wider but since there's alot of slowing down and speeding up going on in Enduro, the lightest possible wheel one can get away with is preferable.

From my own experiences, wide rims are are in. For regular tires up to 2.5, a 30mm inner width hookless is the sweet spot. Alloy rims wider than that will get pretty heavy or weak if weight or strength is compromised. Also, tire profiles stay in the sweet spot at 30mm.

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