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Why did cush core have to be so good?

Jan. 8, 2021, 5:41 a.m.
Posts: 833
Joined: Sept. 10, 2012

Posted by: thaaad

I accidental rode my cushcore with 9 PSI in the front and 14 in the rear last weekend in the pouring rain and it was honestly fucking awesome.

Granted I only rode like 35 minutes of easy blues,  but it still felt amazing ha ha.

Nice. When we had snow on the ground here I didn't bother checking my air pressure in my rear tire equipped with Tannus Tubeless on my hardtail. I tend to lose a bit of air between rides so I was probably down around 12 psi in a Maxxis 2.6" tire under my 185lbs + gear. It rode with no issue. I felt some impacts squish the tire to the rim...but there was no clunk of a hard contact and no rim ding or flat to deal with and traction was great. Snow riding meant not unleashing my full fury, but nice to see how the insert performed when things got lower than my usual 17-18psi riding pressure.

Jan. 8, 2021, 11:02 a.m.
Posts: 1123
Joined: May 11, 2018

Posted by: thaaad

I accidental rode my cushcore with 9 PSI in the front and 14 in the rear last weekend in the pouring rain and it was honestly fucking awesome.

Granted I only rode like 35 minutes of easy blues,  but it still felt amazing ha ha.

It's hard to give up the cush once you get a taste. I am curious if the tannus can do as good a job while shaving 100g off. Something tells me it is not the same but definitely worth a try. I once had a slow leak and ended up riding a very fast blue with around 10psi in the rear (at 225lbs without gear). I could tell the tire was low and squirmy but it still felt in control and I just kept pushing it. I find the point at which I add air is when I can feel I am landing jumps on my cushcore primarily rather than air. When I go below 19 in the rear landings start to feel quite harsh.

Anyone tried cc pro and tannus in the same bike/same tires as a direct comparison?

Jan. 8, 2021, 12:54 p.m.
Posts: 833
Joined: Sept. 10, 2012

Posted by: RAHrider

Anyone tried cc pro and tannus in the same bike/same tires as a direct comparison?

Cam has and talks about it in his review --> https://nsmb.com/articles/tannus-armour-tubeless-inserts-tested/

Jan. 8, 2021, 2:08 p.m.
Posts: 1123
Joined: May 11, 2018

Posted by: Vikb

Posted by: RAHrider

Anyone tried cc pro and tannus in the same bike/same tires as a direct comparison?

Cam has and talks about it in his review --> https://nsmb.com/articles/tannus-armour-tubeless-inserts-tested/

What I'm curious about is ride quality (damping and sidewall support) and all he said is "but I can't make any judgement about side impact/cornering support or vertical impacts but both are very good in that regard."

Wondering if anyone can add anything to his rather lacking comparison. With tannus, they are saying it does everything just as well due to their design. Sometimes good design doesn't make up for lack of material. I find this can be especially true for tires.

Jan. 8, 2021, 3:29 p.m.
Posts: 833
Joined: Sept. 10, 2012

Posted by: RAHrider

What I'm curious about is ride quality (damping and sidewall support) and all he said is "but I can't make any judgement about side impact/cornering support or vertical impacts but both are very good in that regard."

Wondering if anyone can add anything to his rather lacking comparison. With tannus, they are saying it does everything just as well due to their design. Sometimes good design doesn't make up for lack of material. I find this can be especially true for tires.

Just leave a comment in that review. Cam's has been pretty good about responding to specific questions about Tannus vs. CC.

Jan. 10, 2021, 10:53 a.m.
Posts: 282
Joined: Nov. 19, 2002

I love the CC protection and feel, but I hate the weight when they're not needed.

I just built a second wheelset for next season. One with CC for lift-assisted riding and another without CC for more pedally rides.

Jan. 11, 2021, 9:49 a.m.
Posts: 643
Joined: March 25, 2011

Picked a pair up from Ridley’s in Cowtown for $137 taxes in including shipping.

Our locals have them now, well Kinetik does. Good tip on RJD Services, forgot that they stock some bikes stuff :)

Jan. 12, 2021, 11:07 a.m.
Posts: 96
Joined: Feb. 13, 2018

Posted by: RAHrider

Anyone tried cc pro and tannus in the same bike/same tires as a direct comparison?

I've tried both now with the same bike, same tires, same tire pressure, same trails (Eagle), very similar conditions (but slightly different wheels and two weeks apart so it isn't a perfect comparison). 

CC Pro setup: Continental Der Baron Projekt 29x2.4 tires, 19psi front, 20 psi rear with CC Pro on both ends on WAO Union rims on my hardtail. 

Tannus setup: Same tires, same psi, same bike, Tannus Tubeless on both ends on WAO Agent rims (which WAO says are a bit stiffer radially than the Union rim). 

I've been running CC Pro for about 1.5 years so I'm very used to it. I have only one ride on the Tannus setup so these are just my initial thoughts.

Impacts - I didn't feel any real difference between CC Pro and Tannus at these tire pressures. I didn't case anything or smash anything too nasty. There is about a 200m section of trail filled with baby heads and jagged rocks that would definitely have resulted in rim strikes without inserts. I didn't feel any rim strikes with CC Pro or Tannus. Can't comment on really hard impacts though. Both seemed to work about the same (well).

Sidewall support - They felt pretty much the same to me at these pressures. No squirm. Both are excellent. 

Ride feel (not cornering) - There's a noticeable difference between Tannus and CC Pro here. It felt to me like CC Pro has a more significant damping effect on trail chatter. Tannus felt a bit more direct / energetic. On a hardtail at least, I think CC Pro is a bit more compliant feeling than Tannus. I don't suggest that's a good or bad thing necessarily. Just different.

Weight - The ~100g per wheel weight difference between the two is noticeable climbing, particularly in techy sections and/or where I start to feel  gassed. I don't think it's noticeable descending and it wasn't really noticeable on flat terrain (not that there's much of that around here). 

I'm going to throw the Tannus on the Union rims to see how that feels and will mess with tire pressures more. 

My initial takeaway is that assuming you don't care about the ability to ride out on a flat, I'm thinking go Tannus if you want quicker feeling wheels and go CC Pro if you want to maximize the magic carpet ride feeling. Again, assuming not caring about being able to ride out on a flat, I'd probably lean towards Tannus for a full suspension bike but would have more difficulty deciding for a hardtail.

Final thought: I've also used Cushcore XC on another bike for about a year. Now that I've tried Tannus Tubeless, I don't see any reason at all to buy Cushcore XC. I think you get better sidewall support from Tannus (on a 2.4 width tire at least) with better (or at least equal) damping of trail chatter for about the same weight and lower price.

Jan. 24, 2021, 12:15 p.m.
Posts: 2042
Joined: Jan. 5, 2010

The comments section of that article, as well as Dave highlighting they weigh less than a tube, was enough for me to call Trek and pick some tannus tubeless inserts up last weekend. 

They’re phenomenal. I’ll be buying another pair for the DH bike. 

I am really bad for running high pressures, but I don’t seem to like to brake or pick my lines so I needed to (usually 32F 35R on my enduro, and 38F 40R on the DH)  

I’ve got a couple days riding pretty hard at 15-18psi in the front now and I didn’t blow off a tire. Felt a bit squirmy and allowed me to impact the rim into rocks and roots on a few occasions, but I’ll perfect the pressure over the next few weeks. 

Conditions were also really good the last week so it’s hard to attribute how good my bike felt all to tannus tubeless armour, but I feel like I got my mojo as soon as I had them in.

March 9, 2021, 5:14 p.m.
Posts: 148
Joined: May 1, 2018

I’m curious - I’ve only run cushcore in my hard tail, but am about to put one in the back of my Druid after ruining a tyre on the weekend riding like a hoon.

I recall Darren from push on one of the vital podcasts talking about how much cushcore can impact suspension performance. Has anyone got any experience in changes to damping they made after installing cushcore?

March 9, 2021, 6:07 p.m.
Posts: 1123
Joined: May 11, 2018

I haven't thought of it but I think I am running my rebound damping lighter. I always used to turn up the rebound to get the "magic carpet feel" I am looking for. Then I end up having to turn it down on steep successive hits as the shock is not rebounding fast enough and I'm sucking down into the travel. Cushcore gives me the subtle trail damping I like and then I can just tune my suspension without trying to over dampen the shock to keep the tires feeling planted.

March 9, 2021, 6:12 p.m.
Posts: 148
Joined: May 1, 2018

That makes sense. I'm wondering too if the LSC can be increased a fraction - as the wheel traction is improved, then the suspension LSC up a notch or two to pedal even better?

March 9, 2021, 8:12 p.m.
Posts: 1123
Joined: May 11, 2018

I don't think cushcore will have a huge impact on LSC. I think CC has a bigger effect on rebound than compression damping effects. I don't think of it as more suspension than you already have, it just makes the little bit that is built into the tyres actually usable rather than undampened.

March 9, 2021, 11:58 p.m.
Posts: 2308
Joined: April 2, 2005

how does it feel riding uphill with such low tire pressures + insert? do you feel like you need to put in more power due to inceased traction?

March 10, 2021, 5:08 a.m.
Posts: 148
Joined: May 1, 2018

If you’re set up right it shouldn’t - traction propels you forward, loses traction doesn’t. The mass is noticeable sometimes, but not terribly so (even on my singlespeed).

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