Why did cush core have to be so good?

Thanks Mike. Glad to hear they are working Out well for you.

Posted by: syncro

is there a point where all that extra traction starts to be a negative? i find that the occasional squirmyness adds a level of unpredictability that can make a ride more fun.

The traction is great and make things a lot more predictable. Maybe I am a bit too much OCD but I like things to be a bit more predictable. ;-)  

My only concern for these inserts is how they will be on longer races/races?  When will I start to notice the added 150gms per wheel?

Cheers, Mike

Depends on the situation.

I tried a super tacky dh tyre on the rear last ride. All my usual places for sliding sideways vanished, and I started to worry I would lose front wheel traction before the rear would skid. 

Spooky, but fast.

I've now got these little strips of heaven in my 150x150 warden and my 150x134 Kona. Wow! Just as impressive in full sus as in my hardtail. No such thing as too much suspension or traction. I've been using them in pretty robust tires so far. 900g 29x2.4 in the kona. 1050g 29x2.4 in the warden. They both feel way more stable than a 2.5x29 DD minion, which would weigh around the 1300g my current set ups weigh. I see no reason to run DD on anything anymore.

Unexpected squirminess from poor traction does not a fun ride make. I choose to extract fun from other areas of my ride experience

Posted by: RAHrider

Posted by: syncro

is there a point where all that extra traction starts to be a negative? i find that the occasional squirmyness adds a level of unpredictability that can make a ride more fun.

No

Meh, I'll save myself the cash and just stick with the 40psi I run. Haven't had a flat or rim strike in ages.

Posted by: syncro

Meh, I'll save myself the cash and just stick with the 40psi I run. Haven't had a flat or rim strike in ages.

No...no, no, no. Wait what? No.

Posted by: Hepcat

Posted by: syncro

Meh, I'll save myself the cash and just stick with the 40psi I run. Haven't had a flat or rim strike in ages.

No...no, no, no. Wait what? No.

What he said... What was it again? Oh yeah, no

Interestingly my buddy runs his tires 25-30 with cush core because he "likes the precision" with higher pressures.he still finds the benefits out weigh the added weight. 

Spend the $250, you will wonder why you didn't long before.

Posted by: RAHrider

Posted by: Hepcat

Posted by: syncro

Meh, I'll save myself the cash and just stick with the 40psi I run. Haven't had a flat or rim strike in ages.

No...no, no, no. Wait what? No.

What he said... What was it again? Oh yeah, no

Interestingly my buddy runs his tires 25-30 with cush core because he "likes the precision" with higher pressures.he still finds the benefits out weigh the added weight. 

Spend the $250, you will wonder why you didn't long before.

Spent 130 bucks for valves and just one cush for the back wheel as I’ve never had issues tubeless up front. After a few rides on it now (I was sceptical at first) I think it’s a pretty good investment. As others have put it I’ve found better traction while climbing, and who wouldn’t want that. I like the sidewall support too. No tire rollover in the corners. They can be a challenge to install but with some patience I had it done in about 30 minutes even with a brand new tire.

Posted by: FLATCH

Posted by: RAHrider

Posted by: Hepcat

Posted by: syncro

Meh, I'll save myself the cash and just stick with the 40psi I run. Haven't had a flat or rim strike in ages.

No...no, no, no. Wait what? No.

What he said... What was it again? Oh yeah, no

Interestingly my buddy runs his tires 25-30 with cush core because he "likes the precision" with higher pressures.he still finds the benefits out weigh the added weight. 

Spend the $250, you will wonder why you didn't long before.

Spent 130 bucks for valves and just one cush for the back wheel as I’ve never had issues tubeless up front. After a few rides on it now (I was sceptical at first) I think it’s a pretty good investment. As others have put it I’ve found better traction while climbing, and who wouldn’t want that. I like the sidewall support too. No tire rollover in the corners. They can be a challenge to install but with some patience I had it done in about 30 minutes even with a brand new tire.

Ok so not 40psi, probably hover around 24-28 depending on conditions/bike. I can see where the climbing thing makes sense, but I tend to run the slightly higher pressure on more climbing/predaling oriented rides for less drag so the lower pressure with CC seems a bit self defeating. There's a few patches on some climbs though where I have to be careful about losing traction, but that's probably as much to do with choice of rear tire and it being worn than anything else. I will probably eventually give CC a go starting with the medium bike first, but tbh I'm not in a rush. I definitely fall into the camp of not needing all the latest whizz-bang unicorn gear to have a fun ride. I still like taking the old skool 26" hard tail out for a rip now and then simply because it makes a familiar ride a bit more interesting.

Posted by: syncro

Posted by: FLATCH

Posted by: RAHrider

Posted by: Hepcat

Posted by: syncro

Meh, I'll save myself the cash and just stick with the 40psi I run. Haven't had a flat or rim strike in ages.

No...no, no, no. Wait what? No.

What he said... What was it again? Oh yeah, no

Interestingly my buddy runs his tires 25-30 with cush core because he "likes the precision" with higher pressures.he still finds the benefits out weigh the added weight. 

Spend the $250, you will wonder why you didn't long before.

Spent 130 bucks for valves and just one cush for the back wheel as I’ve never had issues tubeless up front. After a few rides on it now (I was sceptical at first) I think it’s a pretty good investment. As others have put it I’ve found better traction while climbing, and who wouldn’t want that. I like the sidewall support too. No tire rollover in the corners. They can be a challenge to install but with some patience I had it done in about 30 minutes even with a brand new tire.

Ok so not 40psi, probably hover around 24-28 depending on conditions/bike. I can see where the climbing thing makes sense, but I tend to run the slightly higher pressure on more climbing/predaling oriented rides for less drag so the lower pressure with CC seems a bit self defeating. There's a few patches on some climbs though where I have to be careful about losing traction, but that's probably as much to do with choice of rear tire and it being worn than anything else. I will probably eventually give CC a go starting with the medium bike first, but tbh I'm not in a rush. I definitely fall into the camp of not needing all the latest whizz-bang unicorn gear to have a fun ride. I still like taking the old skool 26" hard tail out for a rip now and then simply because it makes a familiar ride a bit more interesting.

The science says that your firmer tires go slower than my soft ones. This was shown in a study on road bikes that proved that wider softer tires went faster on uneven terrain. This would only be doubly so for mtb. When your tire hits a small bump it has to go up and over or deform a more firm tire whereas a softer one easily goes over everything. Also, I can run softer sidewall tires and have more support. Cc claims a decrease in rolling resistance. I can verify that although my wheels are heavier, the bike rolls nicely and I have some PR's on uphill segments on my 35lb warden running cc. I am curious where the limit of  "softer tires go faster" is though. For instance, what is the ideal pressure in my road tires? 

This all being said, go enjoy your bouncy slow tires. Nothing wrong with that. I put off trying cc because I have never ruined a rim and didn't think the weight was worth it. Now I have them in every bike because I didn't want to ride the ones that didn't have cc.

Posted by: RAHrider

The science says that your firmer tires go slower than my soft ones. This was shown in a study on road bikes that proved that wider softer tires went faster on uneven terrain. This would only be doubly so for mtb. When your tire hits a small bump it has to go up and over or deform a more firm tire whereas a softer one easily goes over everything. Also, I can run softer sidewall tires and have more support. Cc claims a decrease in rolling resistance. I can verify that although my wheels are heavier, the bike rolls nicely and I have some PR's on uphill segments on my 35lb warden running cc. I am curious where the limit of  "softer tires go faster" is though. For instance, what is the ideal pressure in my road tires? 

This all being said, go enjoy your bouncy slow tires. Nothing wrong with that. I put off trying cc because I have never ruined a rim and didn't think the weight was worth it. Now I have them in every bike because I didn't want to ride the ones that didn't have cc.

Yeah, I've heard about the science but have never seen it. Like you say there is a limit of "softer goes faster" and I've "experimented" enough with pressures on the road and mtn bikes to know that there is a sweet spot. I've found that around 85-90 psi is that sweet spot for road. I don't know if I'd say the gains go double for mtb tho, the pressures are in such a low range to begin with that I think there'd be more concern about being too low and causing way more drag or potential rim strikes. I can definitely notice the drag if pressure drops too low, under 70 for the road bike and under 20 for the mtb bike. I find that on a gravel climb like old buck or at sfu those couple extra psi (28) definitely feels faster and it's not bouncy. On a more tech climb a little less, say 24 seems to work well. Mind you I'm over 200 so I probably need a few more psi than the avg rider I see out there these days who seem to be around 120lbs or so.

A quick update...I got one XC race in before COVID-19 shut down all racing.  The race was at Ancient Lakes near Quincy, WA.  Mostly hard packed sand with some loose sand and 2-3 short but very rough rock gardens.  Those rocks took out a few folks that did not add air to protect their rims & tires.  I was glad for the extra protection and traction from running low PSI in the soft sand corners.

But...I felt the extra weight on those short punchy climbs.  Took them out.  Where I have landed with XC CC...I would run at least one in the rear for pleasure riding but not racing.  And for those that will say just train harder...watts is not lacking in my legs.  At 52 years young and a clyde, I just need all the help I can muster to move up hills.  

Since then, I have been mostly safely riding Tokul area and playing with PSI.  Really amazing how much just one PSI can make a pretty big difference.  I am now running 18-19psi Front & 24-25psi rear on my Maxxis Forecaster EXO (2.6F/2.35R) on my Tallboy3.

Cheers-Mike

I installed Cush Core on one wheel this Saturday and it was actually easier than I thought it was going to be.  Except I was rushing and put the tire on backwards (sigh).  So I got to mount one tire twice.  Bonus!

It wasn't quite as hard as I thought it would be, but there was definitely a trick to mounting the tire once the insert was on.

I only put one on the rear tire, but I can't say I've noticed it a huge amount (yet).  I definitely didn't hear any metallic clangs when riding un-smooth, which is kinda nice.  When you guys talk about how amazing it is, do you also mean the front wheel?