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Why did cush core have to be so good?

Nov. 12, 2020, 6:24 a.m.
Posts: 833
Joined: Sept. 10, 2012

Posted by: rwalters

After my first few rides, I am super impressed with the Tannus. 

I'm still in the figuring it out phase with a Tannus insert in the rear of my hardtail. Since I am new to inserts and that's a totally new bike to me it's harder to tease out the differences to my non-insert experiences. I'm past the "I might hate it!" part of the test and now just pondering if this is a long-term addition to the bike and if I want to try another insert on the front or on another bike. Given how often I got flats without an insert [not often] the Tannus seems to strike the right balance of weight, install hassle and performance if I am going to run an insert.

I do still carry a tube, inserts and a small pump on every ride. It's been so many years since I have needed to install a tube in my own I can't remember the last time, but I guess I am too much of a boy scout to leave it at home. Besides I end up fixing other people's bikes enough that having a tube to give away so they get rolling is worth it.

FWIW - Cam talks about the dual air chamber effect in his review here on NSMB and it seems like that would be a benefit of these inserts. 

https://nsmb.com/articles/tannus-armour-tubeless-inserts-tested/

I was an insert skeptic so if I end up keeping the Tannus inserts long-term or GASP! putting them in other wheels/bikes that'll say something. ;-)

Nov. 12, 2020, 8:07 a.m.
Posts: 49
Joined: Aug. 1, 2019

I have to admit that the run-flat-ability with CC inserts had zero influence on my decision to run them in the first place. I think Tannus says you can do it with theirs, but I'm sure that CC is a safer bet for that purpose. Andrew - you and I are very different riders! Given the choice of (easily) throwing a tube in, and riding out on a flat tire with expensive rims, tires and CC inserts - I'll take throwing a tube in every time!

Let's be honest - even with a CC insert in, if you do a significant ride-out on a flat tire - there's a very good chance you're going to damage the insert AND tire, and I'd say a good chance you'll even damage your rim. For this reason, the "run-flat-ability" isn't even a remote factor for me. When running CC, I also didn't bother carrying a tube, as I knew there was no way in hell I was going to be able to remove those damn things on the trail. I carried a good assortment of plugs and patches, etc. Luckily, I was never forced to use them - my entire year on CC, I didn't get a single flat.

Nov. 12, 2020, 4:06 p.m.
Posts: 180
Joined: April 26, 2004

Testimonial in favour of noodles/inserts.

noodles/inserts may not make you faster, but "run flatting" them down to 5 psi in the rear won't make you slower either

I did the Merritt Crown 120 km XCM in September

Lots of arrowhead like rocks and lots of punctures for many people.

In the first minute of single track, the guy behind says "you (me) have a flat, I see sealant spraying".

I was using Pepis Rokline yellow noodles, with Racing Ralph 2.25" and 22mm id rims. Since it was the start of the race and I had no trouble following in line with a rear soft tire, I didn't bother stopping until the single track finished before checking and sure enough my tire went from 15 psi (as measured at the start with a big brass gauge) down to ~5psi (pinch test), so I got my quick fill and tried to do only a partial refill to get back up to 15 psi, but messed up a bit and only got to about 12 psi. Anyway with the noodles I didn't have much tire squirm as the Pepi's round noodle squishes down into a light-bulb shape between the rim flanges, and makes the tire near impossible to unseat.

At the Merritt Crown, the course was only partially marked and everyone was required to download the course map from TrailForks onto a device, and most of those that used Trailforks to record their ride also downloaded their ride to the Trailforks website, which includes leaderboards for the individual trails that are part of the course. So almost an Enduro within an XCM.

I did two of the four black diamond downhills at 12 psi down to 5 psi (as I was gradually getting more micro flats or had lost some more air immediately after using my CO2 before the sealant worked). So looking back at the Trailforks leadboards, I was 5th overall for the first black diamond dh (Burn & Windy, which is bermy) at probably 10 psi average, and 1st for the second one (Godey, which has lots of rock gardens, rock slabs, root nests and bridges, but not that steep and no berms) going from about 10 psi to 5 psi by the end. I borrowed a foot pump after Godey at an aid station, and the next black diamond dh (Ridge) my tire felt too rigid at ~20 psi. Maybe the extra cushion on Godey made me faster on the dh (I was still slow on road climbs, but according to the speedo on my Garmin, I was no slower than normal on the paved climb between trails)

With Pepi's noodles even at 0 psi, you would have to do something extremely violent to unseat the tire while riding, and at 5psi I have not been able to burp. Although, at that pressure how could you tell while riding. But after the Merritt Crown there were not dried sealant stains around the beads or sidewalls, but over 20 on the tread of the tire. Actually, lower pressure normally prevents punctures from arrowhead like rocks. There are videos out there showing a truck tire at different pressures rolling over a bolt welded to a plate (like a dull spike plate) and at low pressure the tire folded and absorbed the bolt rather than fighting it and puncturing.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9Kz8mmLkeks

The Roklines start round and rattle around inside the tire after mounting, but mash down into the rim after some rough riding, filling up all the rim channel space, and mushrooming up over the beads, effectively locking the tire to the rim

So the "run flat" ability saved my race and enabled me to have an encouraging result, at least as far as individual trailforks segments go. So as far as any measurable benefits or detriments, noodles are still a benefit as far as the "run flat" ability.

I have weighed the Pepi's Roklines after a year of abuse and they didn't gain weight (still 100 gm). They have a shiny exterior that doesn't absorb liquid and is meant to reduce friction between the noodle and the tire carcass. They also haven't been damaged by "Run Flatting" them.

I haven't run flatted a front in a race, but have ridden a front home at 0 psi (mix of trail and road), without damaging tire, rim or insert

With the noodles I have gone from 2.35" tires with 26m id rims (without noodles) to 2.25" and 22id (with noodles) and saved weight overall (some pretty inexpensive narrow carbon rims out there now too)


 Last edited by: taprider on Nov. 13, 2020, 10:47 a.m., edited 2 times in total.
Nov. 23, 2020, 7:54 p.m.
Posts: 15221
Joined: Nov. 20, 2002

i don't have the link cuz i read it when my computer when I was switching computers, but it was saying inserts for a road tire is a happening thing with the racer types, cuz they wana have a tire that will still work at least  a little when its gone flat

Nov. 30, 2020, 8:41 p.m.
Posts: 148
Joined: May 1, 2018

It's likely - one of the main benefits of tubulars is how they are safer when you puncture. A well glued tub will stay on the rim, whereas a clincher tends to pop off and quickly tangle in frame while you're trying to find traction using the rim. A beadlock style clincher system makes a lot of sense, but may well make tubeless/clinchers less attractive than tubs again.

Dec. 4, 2020, 11:41 a.m.
Posts: 918
Joined: March 15, 2013

I'm about to install a set in my Sight. I'm hoping for little swearing and no blood.

Dec. 4, 2020, 11:44 a.m.
Posts: 1123
Joined: May 11, 2018

Posted by: thaaad

I'm about to install a set in my Sight. I'm hoping for little swearing and no blood.

Just make sure they are room temp before putting them in.

Dec. 4, 2020, 2:29 p.m.
Posts: 918
Joined: March 15, 2013

It was actually only about half as difficult as I thought it was going to be.


 Last edited by: thaaad on Dec. 4, 2020, 2:29 p.m., edited 1 time in total.
Dec. 4, 2020, 4:03 p.m.
Posts: 160
Joined: Jan. 21, 2013

I thought I would weigh in on Tannus tubeless, and they're great so far. Lightweight, good support, not bad to install, and importantly fairly affordable. 

I like them. Would buy again.

Dec. 4, 2020, 5:19 p.m.
Posts: 918
Joined: March 15, 2013

What pressure are you guys running?

Dec. 4, 2020, 6:13 p.m.
Posts: 1294
Joined: Nov. 6, 2006

Posted by: thaaad

It was actually only about half as difficult as I thought it was going to be.

Just wait till you have to remove it

Dec. 4, 2020, 10:36 p.m.
Posts: 96
Joined: Feb. 13, 2018

Posted by: FLATCH

Posted by: thaaad

It was actually only about half as difficult as I thought it was going to be.

Just wait till you have to remove it

Get the bead dropper.  Worth every penny.  Makes is suuuper easy.

Dec. 4, 2020, 11:23 p.m.
Posts: 1123
Joined: May 11, 2018

Posted by: thaaad

What pressure are you guys running?

It depends on the bike, rim, tire combo.

On a hardtail with 30mm internal rim width and DD or exo casing I can run 17/19. If I go lower it is a bit squirmy and feels harsh when landing drops as you go right through the air and land on the firm insert.

On a full sus bike with 27mm rim width I run 23/25 as the tires get too squirmy with the more narrow rim and higher speeds.

I'm about 220lbs before adding clothes or shoes.

Dec. 4, 2020, 11:32 p.m.
Posts: 918
Joined: March 15, 2013

Posted by: Bushpilot

Get the bead dropper.  Worth every penny.  Makes is suuuper easy.

I just used regular tire levers and a Park Tools pad spreader during install. 

We didn't have the bead dropper at work and the pad spreader worked exactly like the dropper did in the video.

Dec. 4, 2020, 11:33 p.m.
Posts: 918
Joined: March 15, 2013

Posted by: RAHrider

It depends on the bike, rim, tire combo.

On a hardtail with 30mm internal rim width and DD or exo casing I can run 17/19. If I go lower it is a bit squirmy and feels harsh when landing drops as you go right through the air and land on the firm insert.

On a full sus bike with 27mm rim width I run 23/25 as the tires get too squirmy with the more narrow rim and higher speeds.

I'm about 220lbs before adding clothes or shoes.

Thanks for the info :)

I'm normally a 21F 25R kind of guy (on full sus) so I'm excited to try something like 18F 21R or lower maybe.

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