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Why did cush core have to be so good?

March 27, 2020, 8:27 a.m.
Posts: 35
Joined: Feb. 24, 2017

Posted by: D_C_

What pressure are you running.

CushCore + 22 psi in the rear feels similar to awesome suspension, where small bumps all but disappear.

I was using the pump in my truck to finalize pressure, so it's accuracy is +/- 5 psi (ha).  I was aiming for 22 psi, but I was largely measuring by the squeeze and guess method.  I'll need to play around with it and actually put a pump on that's accurate.

May 3, 2020, 9:41 p.m.
Posts: 1081
Joined: May 11, 2018

Been running CC in almost all my bikes for a 5 months now and I have a few observations

1) they aren't hard to install. At first I thought they were but I was doing it in December in a cold shed with no heat and the inserts had been sitting in my cold car all day. If the inserts are room temperature, they are pretty easy to put in. I can take off and put on tires with cc in about 5 extra minutes with no tools. If you are good at putting on tires without tools (including road tires) these are a snap in comparison. If you can't put on a tire without a lever, the inserts will end you! - learn the principles of intalling tires without tools and adding cushcore is not too tough a challenge - just make sure they aren't cold!

2) sealing tires is a bit harder as i find the sealant doesn't have easy access to the rim/tire interface once the tire has spun. Anyone have any hints? I have now started putting 20cc in, seating the tire, then putting in 20cc more and repeating the process.

3) You can run them ridiculously low pressure. I had a slow leak in one of my rear tires (see observation 2) and the pressure when I got back to my car was about 12 PSI. Despite having only 12PSI I managed to put in a top 4 strava performance on a super fast jumpy segment near the end of my ride with speeds up to 35km/h. I could tell things were squirmy but it didn't seem to slow me down any.

4) Just put these things in my rigid single speed that I dusted off recently. The lack of any suspension really showed me what the inserts were doing for me. It's incredible. Where I was previously bouncing my way through rough corners I can now lean the bike and carve at full speed like I would on any of my suspended bikes.

I know this sounds like an add for the product, but I wasn't even looking at these things until my friend explained the suspension advantages. This is my attempt to return the favour to someone like me who didn't know they were missing out the single best upgrade $250 can buy your bike.

May 4, 2020, 4:24 a.m.
Posts: 1258
Joined: Nov. 6, 2006

Posted by: RAHrider

Been running CC in almost all my bikes for a 5 months now and I have a few observations

1) they aren't hard to install. At first I thought they were but I was doing it in December in a cold shed with no heat and the inserts had been sitting in my cold car all day. If the inserts are room temperature, they are pretty easy to put in. I can take off and put on tires with cc in about 5 extra minutes with no tools. If you are good at putting on tires without tools (including road tires) these are a snap in comparison. If you can't put on a tire without a lever, the inserts will end you! - learn the principles of intalling tires without tools and adding cushcore is not too tough a challenge - just make sure they aren't cold!

2) sealing tires is a bit harder as i find the sealant doesn't have easy access to the rim/tire interface once the tire has spun. Anyone have any hints? I have now started putting 20cc in, seating the tire, then putting in 20cc more and repeating the process.

3) You can run them ridiculously low pressure. I had a slow leak in one of my rear tires (see observation 2) and the pressure when I got back to my car was about 12 PSI. Despite having only 12PSI I managed to put in a top 4 strava performance on a super fast jumpy segment near the end of my ride with speeds up to 35km/h. I could tell things were squirmy but it didn't seem to slow me down any.

4) Just put these things in my rigid single speed that I dusted off recently. The lack of any suspension really showed me what the inserts were doing for me. It's incredible. Where I was previously bouncing my way through rough corners I can now lean the bike and carve at full speed like I would on any of my suspended bikes.

I know this sounds like an add for the product, but I wasn't even looking at these things until my friend explained the suspension advantages. This is my attempt to return the favour to someone like me who didn't know they were missing out the single best upgrade $250 can buy your bike.

I would agree, I haven’t had to remove one yet but I know it’s coming. Install wasn’t too bad,I used levers but like you everything was in my cold garage. I found the garbage can was a real aid. All said I’m sold. If you’re a bigger guy, these are a no brainer.

May 5, 2020, 2:03 a.m.
Posts: 143
Joined: May 1, 2018

I agree - at least one wholesaler I know in Australia decided not to sell as they couldn't understand / sell them, but they're slowly picking up. It's one of those things that I think people find easier and easier to justify after they kills tyres and rims, and only then do they really believe the other benefits. There's just so much hype and woo in the industry it's not surprising.

May 5, 2020, 12:07 p.m.
Posts: 900
Joined: Nov. 18, 2015

I’ve got CC on the rear of my hardtail 29+. 

13psi!!! Immense traction  

Carbon rim so it will probably prolong the life too.

May 5, 2020, 9:11 p.m.
Posts: 143
Joined: May 1, 2018

Posted by: JBV

so true and the cost in Cdn pesos is just brutal. i haven't tried and have no plans to as i'm finding SG and DD tires to be ample protection and i do use Rimpact for a fraction of the price, but apparently it's not the same feel of CC which many say is truly game changing.  i just bought a 170mm coil sprung 29er so i figure i won't have to rely much on that perfect tire set up for ride quality!

I told myself this, and used Huck Norriss, but it's hard to go back once you've ridden the CC, or had a trip / race complicated by a needless rim/tyre issue that CC would prevent. I've still had the odd issue with the rim impact type inserts, but not with CC. I'm on a hardtail and a 165mm coil sprung 29er too.

May 6, 2020, 9:35 a.m.
Posts: 1090
Joined: Feb. 5, 2011

For those of you that use CushCore - how often are you changing tires? I like to swap out my rear tire relatively often in the warmer months depending on what I am riding - Aggressor for more pedally rides and DHR2 for shuttle/park. Not swapping ride by ride or anything but still like to have that option. I was using the Nukeproof ARD inserts, which weren't overly hard to install but I still found them quite annoying to deal with. Initially had lots of trouble with the rim tape leaking due to the way it was interacting with the insert. And recently, I was trying to swap my rear tire and had the toughest time trying to remove the old tire with the insert (I think it was something to do with sealant drying up and sticking certain things together. Ended up having to remove both the tire and the insert by cutting through them with scissors. I've since stopped using them to avoid all that hassle.

Cushcore sounds interesting based on how positive all the comments seem to be. Will I have the same trouble with CC that I had with my old inserts? Also liking that CC came out with their own levers, as I was breaking the cheap plastic park tool levers when installing the ARD inserts.

May 6, 2020, 9:53 p.m.
Posts: 1081
Joined: May 11, 2018

If you swap your tires frequently, I would hope you are pretty good at installing rubber? The principles of installing the tire are no different with or without cushcore. Get the bead into the centre of the rim on one side so it slips over the rim on the opposite side. You just have to manhandle the cc so the bead goes where you need it to. I haven't had any trouble with anything getting stuck to anything else. If you struggle getting tires on and off without strips, cc will be the worst. 

Personally, I find the mess of sealant worse than cc with regards to keeping me from wanting to swap tires.

May 7, 2020, 5:20 a.m.
Posts: 143
Joined: May 1, 2018

It’s not too bad. I’m using praxis asymmetric rims which can be pretty tight and it probsbly takes 3 more minutes. 

Buy those high quality tire levers you’ve always wanted and it’s a satisfying job with a beer.

May 10, 2020, 10:25 a.m.
Posts: 21
Joined: Oct. 21, 2017

Not everybody has the same opinion on tire inserts. Go to 35:00.

I'm using CC in a set of Hutchinson TORO tires ; I like the lateral support they provide.

I was using before a set of MagicMary with super gravity casing and I was'nt complaining about the lack of lateral support.

I will swap to MagicMary again, and will try them without CC first.

May 10, 2020, 10:26 p.m.
Posts: 1081
Joined: May 11, 2018

Posted by: Vincent66

Not everybody has the same opinion on tire inserts. Go to 35:00.

I'm using CC in a set of Hutchinson TORO tires ; I like the lateral support they provide.

I was using before a set of MagicMary with super gravity casing and I was'nt complaining about the lack of lateral support.

I will swap to MagicMary again, and will try them without CC first.

I guess they aren't for everyone. 

I rode my process without inserts for the first time today. It was a gnarly old school trail. It sucked. I ended up taking a bunch of air out for the steep rocky climbs as I was slipping with 23/21 psi.  Just had to be careful on the downs. 

I don't really notice the weight that much when it comes to pedaling either. Usually heavier tires have more rolling resistance but the inserts are weight without rolling resistance. The guy in that interview said he'd rather use heavier tires, more sealant and higher pressure - I can't imagine a worse answer, but that's my preference. 

Tonight I stole my wife's Xc inserts out of her Rocky. I'm curious how they will compare.

May 11, 2020, 12:03 a.m.
Posts: 1769
Joined: Nov. 23, 2002

I think the best comparison and reason for CC comes from riding back when larger sized tires with decent rubber really became accessible (2003???) and guys start to run lower pressures due to the capabilities of the tires. When we hit those duff covered "secret" lines it felt like riding on a bed of sponge or super duper plush suspension and everyone raved about the feel. I would imagine that CC creates pretty much the same feeling and I can see how it would be addictive.

May 11, 2020, 7:58 p.m.
Posts: 1081
Joined: May 11, 2018

Yup, bed of sponge/super duper plush is about right.

Rode the XC CC today for the first time. Set it up on 2.4 Onza tires on Derby rims. The install is ridiculously easy. put them in by  hand in about 15 minutes for everything including the valves. Regular cc takes me a little longer - 30-40 minutes for both tires.

I was really frustrated that everyone test rides the XC inserts with 2.5 enduro tires, I wanted to try them with something in the size range they are marketed for. Initially I tried running them with the same pressure I do on full cc on the same rim/tire setup - 19 rear/17 front. The XC inserts give the nice damped feel you get with the full size inserts. Coming off jumps and through rubble and gnar felt way better than without. The sidewall support was not even close though, it got squirmy coming off jumps with any sideways forces. Pumped them up a little - likely around 22/20 and the added stability was enough to let me ride how I like. The damped feel was still good with the added pressure. Pedaling I didn't notice the extra weight particularly whereas the full cc inserts are a definite change.

Long story short, I feel like the XC inserts give about the same damping effect without the sidewall support but also without nearly the same weight penalty. There is also a nice wing over the edge of the rim, so the protection seems reasonable. If I were light and didn't really roll tires over the XC would be great, but I am 220lbs. I think I'm gonna keep these in my Process 134 as it is my bike for long days in the saddle and these inserts are the perfect balance for this rig. For my hardtails and my bigger bikes, the full cc is worth it.

May 12, 2020, 4:33 p.m.
Posts: 21
Joined: Oct. 21, 2017

Posted by: RAHrider
The guy in that interview said he'd rather use heavier tires, more sealant and higher pressure - I can't imagine a worse answer, but that's my preference.

Yeah, I didn't like his answer too ; but being several times DH world champion, he must pretty much know what is talking about ...

Also, his wheels are definitely spinning faster than mine ; he might get different feelings.

What feels good for us might not be the best option for this level of riding.


 Last edited by: Vincent66 on May 13, 2020, 10:50 p.m., edited 2 times in total.
May 13, 2020, 1:21 p.m.
Posts: 52
Joined: Feb. 24, 2017

Posted by: RAHrider

Yup, bed of sponge/super duper plush is about right.

Rode the XC CC today for the first time. Set it up on 2.4 Onza tires on Derby rims. The install is ridiculously easy. put them in by  hand in about 15 minutes for everything including the valves. Regular cc takes me a little longer - 30-40 minutes for both tires.

I was really frustrated that everyone test rides the XC inserts with 2.5 enduro tires, I wanted to try them with something in the size range they are marketed for. Initially I tried running them with the same pressure I do on full cc on the same rim/tire setup - 19 rear/17 front. The XC inserts give the nice damped feel you get with the full size inserts. Coming off jumps and through rubble and gnar felt way better than without. The sidewall support was not even close though, it got squirmy coming off jumps with any sideways forces. Pumped them up a little - likely around 22/20 and the added stability was enough to let me ride how I like. The damped feel was still good with the added pressure. Pedaling I didn't notice the extra weight particularly whereas the full cc inserts are a definite change.

Long story short, I feel like the XC inserts give about the same damping effect without the sidewall support but also without nearly the same weight penalty. There is also a nice wing over the edge of the rim, so the protection seems reasonable. If I were light and didn't really roll tires over the XC would be great, but I am 220lbs. I think I'm gonna keep these in my Process 134 as it is my bike for long days in the saddle and these inserts are the perfect balance for this rig. For my hardtails and my bigger bikes, the full cc is worth it.

Good stuff. Been wondering if XC CC is worth it for the trail wheelset that I run most of the time here in the Seattle area. 2.4 Dissector rear, Assegai front. Lots of climbing these days, rarely under 3k vert. And now that we're not riding in groups (with lots of stopping), my current ride partners like to drop the hurt hammer on me. 

I have CC already in my "DH" wheelset, and love them for that. But hard to compare climbing pain since they have heavier everything as well as the inserts.

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