Whatever happened to the naild bikes?

Posted by: [email protected]

In my opinion all the big problems with MTBs have been solved for a while already: geometry, suspension, drivetrains, tires, dropper posts, you name it. Any "innovation" is now either only a marginal improvement over an existing solution or something new but mostly unnecessary designed to lift the top end price level of the market (electronic shifting etc.) and lure in consumers looking to spend no matter what.

I've mostly lost interest in new bike tech developments and just focus on enjoying my rides.

This 1000%

Posted by: [email protected]

At the same time the bike had polarizing looks, no place for a water bottle, and that bulky downtube/bottom bracket section (that gives it the profile of an e-bike)

I quite enjoyed the Wolfridge. I think a next generation platform with a slacker HTA, and a steeper STA, the swing link from the next gen 27” frame, some revised pivot hardware I would have had my hand up to test it. It was easier to service than a lot of multi pivot bikes I’ve worked on. I never could have owned the rig though. The e-bike aesthetics don’t do it for me.

I suspect this is the same reason so many people have quietly slipped off the “I’ll buy a gearbox when…” train and also part of the reason the skinny-tubed steel FS bike look is so popular.

I mean, many carbon frames have enough down tube storage they could have a battery in there. I think that design language is probably a turnoff for a lot of folks who aren’t interested in owning a MAMB.

Posted by: [email protected]

In my opinion all the big problems with MTBs have been solved for a while already: geometry, suspension, drivetrains, tires, dropper posts, you name it. Any "innovation" is now either only a marginal improvement over an existing solution or something new but mostly unnecessary designed to lift the top end price level of the market (electronic shifting etc.) and lure in consumers looking to spend no matter what.

I've mostly lost interest in new bike tech developments and just focus on enjoying my rides.

I think it was from Andy-Eunson that I first heard ~ “when they figured out they couldn’t sell us more bikes they decided to sell us more bike.”

My car-buddy Mark tells me to look pre-2010 for a good used auto because after that they really became smart phones on wheels.

So, yes!

———

Yes, but.

I still think there are advancements happening but you have to really look for them and they are the sort of things that are also backwards upgrades for past bikes. Trickledowns mainly.

Budget big brakes - for a long time the cost of a properly powerful DH brake system was a proper investment. Now bigger riders on steeper terrain have real options.

Extra long dropper posts (220mm, 240mm!). I mean, I’m perfectly dialled on a 170mm post but I know plenty of tall folks who say extra long droppers have made a huge difference for them.

Budget clutch drivetrains. MicroShift 9-speed is a shot across the bow of ShiRAMano and I’d anticipate both an SX drivetrain that isn’t complete shit and Alivio-level clutch action sooner than later. This is, I think, huge in terms of getting the most rideable real mountains bikes in the 1-2k range as well as upgrading older chassis that benefit from how much geometry change has slowed down.

I'm waiting on the Problem Solvers Portable EMP to hit the market at a reasonable size/cost. I heard we may get some info in a week or so. ;-)

Posted by: Vikb

I'm waiting on the Problem Solvers Portable EMP to hit the market at a reasonable size/cost. I heard we may get some info in a week or so. ;-)

Hey, as long as it will take people's phones, headphones and bike computers with it I am all for it.

Posted by: kavurider

Hey, as long as it will take people's phones, headphones and bike computers with it I am all for it.

Strava, AXS, phones, computers, e-bikes...the marketing spew almost writes itself. ;-)

Posted by: AndrewMajor

Posted by: [email protected]

In my opinion all the big problems with MTBs have been solved for a while already: geometry, suspension, drivetrains, tires, dropper posts, you name it. Any "innovation" is now either only a marginal improvement over an existing solution or something new but mostly unnecessary designed to lift the top end price level of the market (electronic shifting etc.) and lure in consumers looking to spend no matter what.

I've mostly lost interest in new bike tech developments and just focus on enjoying my rides.

I think it was from Andy-Eunson that I first heard ~ “when they figured out they couldn’t sell us more bikes they decided to sell us more bike.”

My car-buddy Mark tells me to look pre-2010 for a good used auto because after that they really became smart phones on wheels.

So, yes!

———

Yes, but.

I still think there are advancements happening but you have to really look for them and they are the sort of things that are also backwards upgrades for past bikes. Trickledowns mainly.

Budget big brakes - for a long time the cost of a properly powerful DH brake system was a proper investment. Now bigger riders on steeper terrain have real options.

Extra long dropper posts (220mm, 240mm!). I mean, I’m perfectly dialled on a 170mm post but I know plenty of tall folks who say extra long droppers have made a huge difference for them.

Budget clutch drivetrains. MicroShift 9-speed is a shot across the bow of ShiRAMano and I’d anticipate both an SX drivetrain that isn’t complete shit and Alivio-level clutch action sooner than later. This is, I think, huge in terms of getting the most rideable real mountains bikes in the 1-2k range as well as upgrading older chassis that benefit from how much geometry change has slowed down.

1. Is there an EV that isn't a smartphone on wheels? I hate the idea of everything in the car controlled by a touch screen and menus. How are you supposed to operate all that while driving? 

2. I'm a tall person who was perfectly happy on a 185. Then I reluctantly switched to 200 because my new bike had a shorter seat tube. I don't find 200 to be significantly better than 185. I can't imagine wanting to drop my seat any lower. Any lower and I wouldn't be able to steer with my knees.

One tech innovation I am keen on is the advent of made to order semi-custom bikes. Basically what Atherton is doing, but more affordable and more local. Folks who want something standard can order off a menu of stock frames and people who want something a bit different can get their needs met without going full custom. As this type of manufacturing becomes more mainstream every big city should have a bunch of companies that should be able to make the frames based on designs/specs downloaded from the bike company. This will also make replacement parts easier to deal with for both the bike company and the customer.

The great thing is this will be amazing for everything from a car part to a replacement part for your fridge. Less warehousing. Less transport costs/impacts. More longevity for products with the availability of replacement parts.

Posted by: Vikb

One tech innovation I am keen on is the advent of made to order semi-custom bikes. Basically what Atherton is doing, but more affordable and more local. Folks who want something standard can order off a menu of stock frames and people who want something a bit different can get their needs met without going full custom. As this type of manufacturing becomes more mainstream every big city should have a bunch of companies that should be able to make the frames based on designs/specs downloaded from the bike company. This will also make replacement parts easier to deal with for both the bike company and the customer.

The great thing is this will be amazing for everything from a car part to a replacement part for your fridge. Less warehousing. Less transport costs/impacts. More longevity for products with the availability of replacement parts.

The Kavenz way of handling this is really good. It's not full full custom but there are enough options to satisfy most people and still be efficient to manufacture. If only they offered more rear center lengths. 

https://kavenz.com/

You can get a variety of custom options from Nicolai or Crossworx.

Posted by: AndrewMajor

Posted by: [email protected]

At the same time the bike had polarizing looks, no place for a water bottle, and that bulky downtube/bottom bracket section (that gives it the profile of an e-bike)

I quite enjoyed the Wolfridge. I think a next generation platform with a slacker HTA, and a steeper STA, the swing link from the next gen 27” frame, some revised pivot hardware I would have had my hand up to test it. It was easier to service than a lot of multi pivot bikes I’ve worked on. I never could have owned the rig though. The e-bike aesthetics don’t do it for me.

I suspect this is the same reason so many people have quietly slipped off the “I’ll buy a gearbox when…” train and also part of the reason the skinny-tubed steel FS bike look is so popular.

I mean, many carbon frames have enough down tube storage they could have a battery in there. I think that design language is probably a turnoff for a lot of folks who aren’t interested in owning a MAMB.

A steel tube with a diameter that looks like most old school round aluminum downtubes will fit a pretty decent sized battery. Just saying...not that I've spent too much time investigating or anything. hahahah

Another couple years and e-bikes won't look so bloated, especially for anyone that comes to the realization that they just need enough power for an after work 2hr ride.

I think people want to to ride further/ faster in boost mode railing berms going uphill & riding up shit they used to shuttle or at least i do

The 500-600 watt shimano batteries needs 3 1/2 -4 inches of square downtube to fit inside and be removable altho I think the difference in physical size is that the 600 is longer

Orbea is allowing you to customize components to some extent

Posted by: earleb

A steel tube with a diameter that looks like most old school round aluminum downtubes will fit a pretty decent sized battery. Just saying...not that I've spent too much time investigating or anything. hahahah

Another couple years and e-bikes won't look so bloated, especially for anyone that comes to the realization that they just need enough power for an after work 2hr ride.

I’ve been wrong about a lot of things with e-bikes, and one of them is assuming most riders would prefer 100-200 watts in a package that was as similar to meat-powered mountain bikes as possible.

I’m aware of a few fully stealth e-bike projects but aside from the TdF and a few poser-nerds wanting to look Lance-fast passing proper-roadies during lunchtime Stanley Park laps I don’t think anyone cares? Once any stigma dissipated around fully able bodied adults using MAMBs to do Bobsled laps from the parking lot the vast majority of the market jumped on the more-torque train.

The only ‘e-bikers’ I know interested in light partial-assist bikes don’t own or ride e-bikes. Everyone I know who actually rides them will take a 50lb+ rig with them x4 power, long travel suspension, and tires they’d otherwise never turn up the hill.

Posted by: XXX_er

I think people want to to ride further/ faster in boost mode railing berms going uphill & riding up shit they used to shuttle or at least i do

Exactly this.

I had ordered a slightly assisted Orbea but then I wondered aloud to shop bro if maybe I should just go big or go home ? he shot me a pic of the Bullit in Lavender, cha-ching Lavender is the new Turquiose

lets say any enduro bike is gona weigh 32 ish so then add 6lbs for an EP8 motor 9lbs for a 630 W battery SO any way you cut it you are looking at somewhere just under 50lbs which sounds horrendous and it is when you are putting it in the truck but once you get underway the weight is centered at mid/ low on the bike, you can run any tire you want with the DD casings cuz with 85NM of power it does not matter and i got used to it pretty quick

i actualy found my self losing weight becuz instead of going too hard and blowing up on climbs I just peddle along for 40min to the top on the area in zone 2/ fat burning zone and on a fasting weight check in the AM I have lost weight i never used to lose on an acoustic bike

as a buddy always sez its not a question  of if i will buy an E bike, its a question of when i will buy an E bike

So, summarizing, if that ugly bulge in the Naild frames had contained a 600W motor, the bikes may have been a success? 😉