dont kid your self, i have had the chance to ride with a few world cup and pro endurance racers, including the female shown above. no one typing in this tread could keep up to them on any bike through any terrain, and while you may question the validity of that bike in the sea to sky / north shore, it would be very fun "real world" bike in a lot of places.
Just a speculative fiction. No cause for alarm.
I competed on a rigid bike when I raced and never felt at a disadvantage to suspended riders. Even at the most technical race courses (Mammoth Mountain) I felt that rigid gave me an advantage on the majority of the course.
The increase in speed on climbs and in the flats seems like it would make sense for most of the pros to switch to rigid. I'd say it is mostly a sponsor thing and the fact that until a few years ago no one made a fork that was light and stiff enough for World Cup riders.
The carbon frame and fork combo is a seriously hot bike.
Also, "EVO" is Specialized's term for bikes that come stock with common upgrades. Typically that means a the bike tips towards the more aggressive side of its niche.
dont kid your self, i have had the chance to ride with a few world cup and pro endurance racers, including the female shown above no one typing in this tread could keep up to them on any bike through any terrain
True, but I don't think anyone here has ever claimed they could…
…it would be very fun "real world" bike in a lot of places…
Ya, exactly, for XC as it is defined everywhere in the world except BC. The mountain in "mountain biking" is a bit too real over here.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k-B_oK2QjoE
Someone vomited 29ers everywhere on that race.
:bandit:
True, but I don't think anyone here has ever claimed they could…
Ya, exactly, for XC as it is defined everywhere in the world except BC. The mountain in "mountain biking" is a bit too real over here.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k-B_oK2QjoESomeone vomited 29ers everywhere on that race.
…..And the crowds went wild! At least a dog looked a little bit excited by it all.
treezz
wow you are a ass
I hear a lot of Test of Metal bashing, and big talk about riding the course rigid, but I really don't see anyone doing it more than once. Buddy of mine (very accomplished rider) tried it once, said it was a stupid decision and it was way better with shocks. The course may not be northshore enough for everyone, but it humbles a lot of people that can ride just fine. If it was so damned easy, that super-fit guy on the cyclocross would have kicked more ass. Instead, me and a few dozen others cruised past him at the top of the Plunge, after the Ring Creek Rip blew his arms and wrists apart. Maybe no single part of the course is that tough, but do it at a race pace, and it gets a lot harder.
Now as for the big circuit racing, it is possible that fully rigid might be faster overall…if you were doing a time trial. However, in a race, advantage is relative to those around you. You can't just pass whenever you please, there are lots of bodies in the way. So you have to be able to hold your own in each section or risk getting dropped behind. Having even a few riders sweep by you in each technical section would continue to handicap any effort you make to catch up. It's not like the pack will just pull over and let the rigid dude by when he catches up after the rocky section. You also need control to hold good lines and keep your place in the pack. You have to be able to work both with the pack and against it. Although fully rigid may have some simplicity appeal and old school cachet, I really don't see it effectively functioning in actual racing conditions.
[QUOTE=cerealkilla';2731841]
Now as for the big circuit racing, it is possible that fully rigid might be faster overall…if you were doing a time trial. However, in a race, advantage is relative to those around you. You can't just pass whenever you please, there are lots of bodies in the way. So you have to be able to hold your own in each section or risk getting dropped behind. Having even a few riders sweep by you in each technical section would continue to handicap any effort you make to catch up. It's not like the pack will just pull over and let the rigid dude by when he catches up after the rocky section. You also need control to hold good lines and keep your place in the pack. You have to be able to work both with the pack and against it. Although fully rigid may have some simplicity appeal and old school cachet, I really don't see it effectively functioning in actual racing conditions.
Back in the ancient times (2009-2010) when super-light full-sus 26" with 100-120mm travel wheels were getting on the podium on the XCO circuits, didn't some people say what you are saying above about the 80mm travel 29er hardtails which were just emerging?
Just for giggles someone at Specialized should pay one of their fastest rocket to do just one race with that rigid XC rig. I'd bet a lot of money they will sell out their entire inventory of that bike for the year within a couple of months.
:bandit:
…..And the crowds went wild! At least a dog looked a little bit excited by it all.
haha, to be fair, the video is pretty boring but there were some insanely fast beasts at the Expert/Elite levels on that race who are an inspiration to watch, both the men and women.
:bandit:
[QUOTE=cerealkilla';2731841]Having even a few riders sweep by you in each technical section would continue to handicap any effort you make to catch up. It's not like the pack will just pull over and let the rigid dude by when he catches up after the rocky section.
In my experience there was usually very little passing on the more technical sections of trail. It happens, but most racers won't risk a potential crash and will wait to pass on a wider section. Even if you are trying to pass in a technical spot, 3 inches of suspension doesn't make a huge amount of difference when trying to get off the fastest line in a rock garden. You do make a good point, however I don't think it is that much of an issue, at least from my racing and riding experience.
Right or wrong that is a very elegant bike. I wish I was excited by the type of trails that bike is designed for.
There's nothing better than an Orangina after cheating death with Digger.
Yes, a nice bike to be sure. And it may well be that they can do things with carbon nowadays that will make it far more compliant than the fully rigid of old. It is also true that it is hard to pass in the technical. I race a lot, and definitely choose my passing points carefully in the tech. However, when I get behind someone that is undersuspended in a difficult section, I often find they are struggling to maintain control and keep a reasonable speed at which they will not be easily passed, while I am simply cruising through. As soon as a wide section is presented, it is usually much easier to blow by them as they try to recover from just hanging on in the technical section.
I guess the question may be whether the amount of energy lost in the tech for a fully rigid ride is balanced by the amount of energy lost to suspension in the easier sections. Clearly, this will vary by the race course. THere is also the unpredicatable factor of whether the lack of suspension causes a crash or induces line-errors that allow significant passing. Add to that the increasing efficiency and lightweightedness of suspension AND the increasing availbility of a remote lockout on just about every brand of fork produced. I think this last point may be the most important of all. Why not have both? Hell, I usually use the manual lockout for any prolonged easy section. The suspension (and or remote) are non-rotating weight as well, so the extra weight is really not so bad.
For the vast majority of racers, you have to add the enjoyability factor as well. Like my buddy said, doing the Test fully rigid sucked…sucked badly. Even a rigid rear end takes a huge part of the enjoyment out of a race (at least for races around here).
The point was also made earlier about what "they" want to sell us. Suspension does seem to offer more to sell than rigids, and if conspiracies are to be believed, the bike makers have so much more to gain by manipulating the market for the next wave of motion control, stable platform, magic valved forks with a whole slew of new features that we absolutely must have.
That bike + Sun Valley singletrack = awesome fun.
That bike + Fromme = not nearly the same level of fun.
What's the point of this thread again?
What's the point of this thread again?
Wild speculation and some discussion about the future of elite XCO race-specific bikes. The thread title is usually a good clue.
:bandit:
That bike + Sun Valley singletrack = awesome fun.
That bike + Fromme = not nearly the same level of fun.
What's the point of this thread again?
totally!
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It is happening. Mark my words… the 16-pound XC "mountain bike" is born. Source: Sea Otter:
:bandit:
That ain't hard to do. Basically a cross bike with a flat bar. My cross bike with race wheels is fifteen and a half.
Debate? Bikes are made for riding not pushing.
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