Short travel 29'ers

Wow, very detailed and interesting writeups! Thanks!

That ziptie trick was my first stop,looks like the ticket for "normal" sram/Shimano cranks. With the hope cranks (30mm axle) the preload adjuster was still too close to the brake line for my comfort though so I improvised further.

Seymour lap up good sir Martin to corkscrew, then corkscrew pingu and over to John deer yesterday.

It climbs great, no need for the lockout lever. You can tell it has high antisquat. Rides high in the travel and sprints well even with a soft spring rate (I tried 600 and went back to 550 mid ride).

Rear tires are not apples to apples (Der kaiser black chili on the jibb vs dissector maxxgrip on the HD5) but the HD5 does seem to have more traction, but I also might just be more used to weighting the HD5. But again could be a trade off of the high anti squat. 

The additional support needed for the fork is still a surprise. Corkscrew and top of pingu felt pretty... unsettling. I forgot to add volume spacers before the ride. The fork dive as the front wheel dropped down into holes or off drops felt sketchy, but I think fork setup might fix it. I added two volume spacers to the lyrik and will try again.

For stuff where the fork dive is not really in play like the rest of pingu or John deer the bike is like a guided missile. Really like a super hardtail. Responsive and can be just tossed into corners but way more stable on high speed chunk.

If the fork adjustments fix the dive feeling in janky stuff I'll be in heaven. The softer rear spring is better. I didn't bottom out this ride and the formula bottom out bumper is an engineered part of the shock to the odd bottom out is probably no big deal. I didn't like 600, it hung up more and I'm not sure there's enough rebound damping available. I do have a 550-670 progressive spring inbound so I'll try that for fun but if it tends to buck on large compressions I'll just stick to 550.

Posted by: Vikb

That Raaw looks great. I have a soft spot for metal bikes.

Yarp me too!!! I want a sweet moly framed one next. I love the gearbox bike the guy at REEB built. The fella at NSB did a killer job as well.

Posted by: DemonMike

Yarp me too!!! I want a sweet moly framed one next. I love the gearbox bike the guy at REEB built. The fella at NSB did a killer job as well.

I'd love a steel FS bike one of these days.  Not any frame just to get steel, but if I can get a steel FS bike that ticks off a bunch of other boxes I'd be keen. 

I was an early adopter on the IGH/Hammerschmidt front. Gearboxes are the next evolution of that. I'm definitely open to a gearbox bike...particularly FS for that really light rear wheel/triangle.. I haven't seen an option that pushed me over the edge to spend money yet and I don't want to get in on the early adopter phase again. I'll let thing mature a bit. I'm not an e-bike fan, but I kind of thought mopeding MTBs might add $$$/engineering firepower to gearbox R&D as it makes a lot of sense to get rid of the standard derailleur drivetrain when every rider is at Olympic Champion level on an e-bike. I hoped that tech would trickle down to the boring old meat engine side of the market. Hasn't happened yet.

Posted by: Vikb

Posted by: DemonMike

Yarp me too!!! I want a sweet moly framed one next. I love the gearbox bike the guy at REEB built. The fella at NSB did a killer job as well.

I'd love a steel FS bike one of these days.  Not any frame just to get steel, but if I can get a steel FS bike that ticks off a bunch of other boxes I'd be keen. 

I was an early adopter on the IGH/Hammerschmidt front. Gearboxes are the next evolution of that. I'm definitely open to a gearbox bike...particularly FS for that really light rear wheel/triangle.. I haven't seen an option that pushed me over the edge to spend money yet and I don't want to get in on the early adopter phase again. I'll let thing mature a bit. I'm not an e-bike fan, but I kind of thought mopeding MTBs might add $$$/engineering firepower to gearbox R&D as it makes a lot of sense to get rid of the standard derailleur drivetrain when every rider is at Olympic Champion level on an e-bike. I hoped that tech would trickle down to the boring old meat engine side of the market. Hasn't happened yet.

Aluminum not steel, but Nicolai's options look cool.

It's the gearboxes that need to be improved for meat engines. Once they are great making frames that work with them isn't all that hard. I'd run a chain if I had a gearbox bike though. 95% of the benefits touted for belts are achieved with chains once you don't have a derailleur and broken chain is an easy trailside fix.

The Nicola/Geometron bikes look amazing. Great to see folks making such quality products.

Posted by: Chasmoftheclam

I like your solution with the M4 bolt, it looks slick. When building up the bike I emailed RAAW re the brake line routing and I received a good response with an alternative way to clamp the hose by threading the zip tie through the slot in the CS, see pic below.

I'm probably around 210 lb with riding gear and am currently happy with the 550 spring, I haven't felt any bottom outs yet and I followed the guide on RAAW's website for the shock tune (https://support.raawmtb.com/article/111-formula-mod-jibb-setup-guide) . I do have the 600 lb spring too (which is recommended by RAAW) which i'll try at some point after more familiarity with the bike.

I don't have the click you have with the Mod shock, but i do have another issue.... when the shock is locked out and I ride over something which makes it break away from locked out and into the initial part of it's travel the shock squeaks. It's not too loud, but noticeable (just uploaded this

). I got in touch with RAAW again and they are organizing for the shock to be sent to a Formula service centre in Canada. I'm just waiting to hear back from them with next steps. I'm definitely happy with the customer service from RAAW and their desire to provide support.

Happened to try the lockout yesterday and mine does the super squeak as well. Pretty wierd, almost hilarious noise. I don't really use the lockout so I'm not in a panic to fix it but figured I'd check in on how the repair process has gone? 

I also feel like I'd at least like the option to run the rebound a little slower so I'll probably check with alba on rebound re-shim options.  

I want to post more impressions of the bike but I'm waiting to get through the honeymoon/setup phase a bit.

All hail the 130/150mm bike!  I love to see it after all the trail bikes seemed to get “upgraded” to 150 in the last little bit.

Posted by: tashi

All hail the 130/150mm bike!  I love to see it after all the trail bikes seemed to get “upgraded” to 150 in the last little bit.

The 130/150 29er segment is pretty dialled I think, it will be interesting to see if the geometry evolves much from here as it seems pretty stable. 

That new mondraker has almost identical geometry in the low position to my Jibb except the mondraker chainstays are 10mm shorter. 

130/150 29er, 65 degree head angle and 77 degree seat angle, plus minus half a degree. 475mm reach and 30mm bottom bracket drop, +/-5mm. Wheelbase 1240mm ish. 

This seems to be a formula for a bike that only feels too big or too small in very extreme circumstances.

Yep, for my riding it’s a toss up between an 120/140mm bike like an Optic or my Wildcat or a 135/150mm bike like this one or a Hightower or Fuel EX. 

They both have similar capabilities, just depends if you want things more snappy or more comfy.

Posted by: Kenny

Posted by: tashi

All hail the 130/150mm bike!  I love to see it after all the trail bikes seemed to get “upgraded” to 150 in the last little bit.

The 130/150 29er segment is pretty dialled I think, it will be interesting to see if the geometry evolves much from here as it seems pretty stable. 

That new mondraker has almost identical geometry in the low position to my Jibb except the mondraker chainstays are 10mm shorter. 

130/150 29er, 65 degree head angle and 77 degree seat angle, plus minus half a degree. 475mm reach and 30mm bottom bracket drop, +/-5mm. Wheelbase 1240mm ish. 

This seems to be a formula for a bike that only feels too big or too small in very extreme circumstances.

5'10", I like a reach of about 460 (assuming ~625 stack) and a wheelbase in 1220 range. To me and my particular dimensions 475 and 1240 feels like an aircraft carrier. 

From the few bikes I've tested the typical sizing of M 450 reach, L 480 reach, leaves me feeling like a bike is a size too small or 2 sizes too big. 

I've also noticed that wheelbase is every bit as important to how big a bike feels as the other geo measurements.

______

Tungsten, that Raze is 🔥. 130/150 I need to try one.

Posted by: Hepcat

Tungsten, that Raze is 🔥. 130/150 I need to try one.

I gotta' stop staring at it, I may lose it and go on a purse snatching spree.

Posted by: Hepcat

Posted by: Kenny

Posted by: tashi

All hail the 130/150mm bike!  I love to see it after all the trail bikes seemed to get “upgraded” to 150 in the last little bit.

The 130/150 29er segment is pretty dialled I think, it will be interesting to see if the geometry evolves much from here as it seems pretty stable. 

That new mondraker has almost identical geometry in the low position to my Jibb except the mondraker chainstays are 10mm shorter. 

130/150 29er, 65 degree head angle and 77 degree seat angle, plus minus half a degree. 475mm reach and 30mm bottom bracket drop, +/-5mm. Wheelbase 1240mm ish. 

This seems to be a formula for a bike that only feels too big or too small in very extreme circumstances.

5'10", I like a reach of about 460 (assuming ~625 stack) and a wheelbase in 1220 range. To me and my particular dimensions 475 and 1240 feels like an aircraft carrier. 

From the few bikes I've tested the typical sizing of M 450 reach, L 480 reach, leaves me feeling like a bike is a size too small or 2 sizes too big. 

I've also noticed that wheelbase is every bit as important to how big a bike feels as the other geo measurements.

______

Tungsten, that Raze is 🔥. 130/150 I need to try one.

Yeah 5'10" often ends up a tweener.  On the wheelbase side of things, since getting the Jibb I've been finding it's more front centre length that makes a bike feel like a freightliner. 

I actually have two bikes with about the same wheelbase, around 1240. The Jibb has 445mm chainstays, a steeper head angle, and 5mm less reach  (shorter front center) than my HD5 which is slacker and has 430mm stays. 

The Jibb *feels* much shorter and more manageable because there's less bike sticking out in front of me, less of the "wheelbarrow effect".  I slightly prefer how the shorter stays climb interestingly enough, but I otherwise much prefer the stability and centered feeling of the longer stays, and I get that extra stability of a longer wheelbase without really feeling the negative effects.

Maybe not a popular opinion but I actually think that the main benefit as a lot of bikes have gotten longer/slacker has been the subsequent increase in wheelbase, and not due to the slackness itself. I actually think you can make a bike with similar stability/capability  to one of these super slack bikes with short stays, but with more natural handling, by reigning in the front center some and lengthening the stays.