i get that cc shocks are very popular after market because they're so tuneable - but i don't get their appeal to companies as oe spec
if i were to buy a complete bike from a manufacturer, i would want - especially in the absence of comprehensive and accurate information about the bike's suspension system, and a guide to tuning it, from the manufacturer - the bike to come with a shock custom valved and tuned for it
I hear this sentiment regularly and it doesn't make sense to me in most contexts.
Cane Creek works with any manufacturer spec'ing their products to offer base tunes that are a great starting point for the majority of riders. For example: http://www.canecreek.com/products/suspension/dbair-cs/base-tunes
If you were to buy a bike with, for example, an RC-4 or Vivid as spec, those shocks will (in theory) be valved specifically for the bike you are buying but they still have a significant range of adjustment (LSC, HSC, LSR) with no guidance provided for set-up. Way more likely to have a sub-optimum or bad set-up?
If you were to buy a bike with a less (externally//average user) adjustable shock like a Float-X, RP23//CTD, or Monarch these shocks would (again in theory) have an ~ average base tune worked out by the manufacturer but depending on your riding style and dimensions (more aggressive than average, heavier than average, lighter than average, etc) it is likely that you would benefit from some degree of customization -- how many of us are "average"?
With the CCDB you can experiment with damper settings (trial and error) for free and always have a base to go back to.
are those ~50% better of fiddling with their suspension themselves, or having it at least mostly set up by the engineers who designed the bike? the idea of buying an $8k bike and then going to the shock manufacturer's website for a base tune that may or may not be "finalized" and then, in the absence of helpful information from the manufacturer, fiddling with the settings until i thought it was right, makes little sense to me (though to be honest i can't see myself ever dropping $8k on a bike…)
i asked arthur once whether he ever got asked to do a suspension set up, and found that the rider had nailed their settings already, and he said never. not sure how close the average punter comes, but i'm guessing the more adjustable the shock, and the less information there is from the manufacturer to guide them, the less likely they are to get things right/more likely they are to be riding a compromised set up
I think it is exciting that over 50% of the "average punters" that I meet at work are interested in learning more about how their bikes work.
The two bikes I can think of where the average rider (weight/ability) most drastically benefits from a re-tune are from a company that does all their suspension kinematics // frame engineering and shock testing in house (i.e. not a catalog frame) and a company that employs the (the?) household name in for-hire suspension engineering.
The craziest counter-example I know of is the first run of Demo-8 specific Ohlins shocks where there were significant issues with shocks being under-valved for the weight of the average person riding them. How much more engineered can you get than a shock built specifically for your frame?
…
I think Arthur does an amazing job helping the average rider get the most out of their bike, but I've met way too many awesome riders (so much better/faster than me that I certainly wouldn't point out what is "wrong" with their set-ups) with drastically different set-ups that work for them (super firm with low-low-low bars, super soft with crazy fast rebound and higher bars, etc) to be convinced that there aren't multiple "right" ways to set-up your bike.
If you follow the basic rules then chances are you are going to have fun on your bike.
1: Front suspension firmer (less sag) than rear suspension.
2: Front suspension faster (rebound) than rear suspension.
ftr i've got a super adjustable shock (manitou swinger 6-way) on my banshee, but few engineers are as willing and able to help with suspension information and advice as keith at banshee - and the shock cost me less than the price of a professional/custom tune
Even a shock with as many adjustments as the 6-Way is easy enough to set-up with a base to start from (and go back to). The problem with the 6-Way is coming up with a starting point for most bikes.
Banshee has excellent base tunes for the CCDB for all their bikes as well.
Mean People SUCK! Nice People SHOVEL!
Trails For All; Trails For Weather
…