Schwalbe Procore

I definitely destroy rear rims on trail bikes. Even at 2bar.

I could have gone to Super Gravity or Double Down casings. And I still might. But so far I feel that front and rear really is the way to go with ProCore.

If you run proper DH tires anyway, rear only for additional protection might be enough.

I've never flatted a full on dh tire on the front wheel. World Cuppers do, but they can do all kinds of crazy things :)

I spent yesterday riding with the guy who developed/develops ProCore for Schwalbe and had good nerdy conversation with him on the uphills. And I told him about this thread and the front/rear discussion and so on. He's German though and doesn't have an account here, so he probably won't chime in. He's a bit of a character, but a really nice and intelligent guy. And he's a really, really good rider. His tires take a beating - and NOT from a plow-without-brains attitude. The guy is fast and can ride some humbling lines.

He's of the opinion that the system makes more sense if you use it on both wheels. Or the FRONT wheel only.
He says that higher pressure on the rear wheel isn't as big of an issue as it is on the front wheel. For sure you'll suffer flats or snakebites easier on the rear, but a bit of slip isn't as critical.

Very interesting; thanks Znarf.

It seems a bit like ProCore is something different to everyone. All the benefits are obviously on tap, but what is key to one person in justifying the system may not be key to another.

Traction VS. Tire Retention VS. Rim Durability VS. ?

It´s pretty funny that you sum it up like this.

These words were pretty much his conclusion =)

Procore in 29" on its way. I sent a couple of my workmates in Berlin on a scavenger hunt. I was told to send 130 euro. Seems like a fair price and I'll be hopefully seeing them on Sunday :grinno:

Those with Procore….did you have issues with the valve stem sealing? I've attempted to set it up several times this week. Air up the Procore chamber, no issue. Add air to the tire and I'm getting leaks (it seams) around the stem shoulder. I've used the supplied tape and re-taped with Gorilla tape. The valve stem has an aluminum shoulder, and possible isn't playing nice with the profile of the rim. Rail 50 FYI. Maybe the system works better with wider rims, or maybe I need a stickier interface with the valve stem shoulder.

I honestly thought the stem would never be an issue as the procure chamber and the tire bead should be really tight to each other…but evidently air is passing though and out the stem/rim interface. :|

I definitely destroy rear rims on trail bikes. Even at 2bar.

I could have gone to Super Gravity or Double Down casings. And I still might. But so far I feel that front and rear really is the way to go with ProCore.

If you run proper DH tires anyway, rear only for additional protection might be enough.

I've never flatted a full on dh tire on the front wheel. World Cuppers do, but they can do all kinds of crazy things :)

I wonder how much rim width has a role in this.

I mean a 23mm rim is more likely to push through the middle of the tire and make contact with the ground. The tire just bulges out as it closes the gap between the tire and the ground.

But a wide rim might not do this since the bulk of the tire is under it and prevents it from collapsing.

Just an idea. It seems there is some camp that says that "I bust rims at 29psi" but then there is the other camp that says, "I run 20 psi and ride hard, no problems."

Not sure what problem Pro-Core is really trying to solve? Is that they are trying to appeal to people that just don't want to upgrade to wider rims? Or does it provide a legit advantage to going tubeless. FTR - I am tubeless, ride like sh!t and don't bust my carbon wide rims even with ridiculously low pressures.

So how does someone with 30% more air pressure punch rims unless the real issue is 30% less width?

What is the science behind all this? Taking into account too that a 26" wheel is going to require more psi than a 29+ wheel.
What is Pro-cores real market?

I wonder how much rim width has a role in this.

I mean a 23mm rim is more likely to push through the middle of the tire and make contact with the ground. The tire just bulges out as it closes the gap between the tire and the ground.

But a wide rim might not do this since the bulk of the tire is under it and prevents it from collapsing.

Just an idea. It seems there is some camp that says that "I bust rims at 29psi" but then there is the other camp that says, "I run 20 psi and ride hard, no problems."

Not sure what problem Pro-Core is really trying to solve? Is that they are trying to appeal to people that just don't want to upgrade to wider rims? Or does it provide a legit advantage to going tubeless. FTR - I am tubeless, ride like sh!t and don't bust my carbon wide rims even with ridiculously low pressures.

So how does someone with 30% more air pressure punch rims unless the real issue is 30% less width?

What is the science behind all this? Taking into account too that a 26" wheel is going to require more psi than a 29+ wheel.
What is Pro-cores real market?

Procore is supposed to only work on 23mmID rims at the minimum. Its funny how that is now considered a 'narrow' rim in the grand scheme of crazy wide rims. My understanding is that it solves a couple of tubeless problems that some (not all) people encounter. It should eliminate the chance of any 'burps'. It should also allow very low pressures without the danger of dinging your rims.
I am guessing that your combination of tire and rim works well for low pressures, and that you have probably been fortunate to have not burped, cracked or dinged your rims at low pressure. Alot of how well tubeless works does come down to the specific rim and tire combo you are running in my opinion.

Well my leaky valve situation seems to have solved itself. After hitting my tire with a pump a few times last night at the Fiver, it seems to be fully sealed. I'm still trying to adapt to the feel of softer tires, but the support is there with the thin snakeskin tires, surprisingly so. However I'm limiting the pressures to 23 front, 25 rear (Magic Mary, HD rear). When it was at 20 on the front traction was great but was a bit vague in corners. Not fold over vague just not enough feedback vague? 23/25 seems to be a nice compromise.

Judging by the 27+ flats last night it might be a good purchase to prevent burps?

So I got a set and put them on my DH bike and it made quite a positive difference. Used to run 28f and 38r in the bike park to prevent flats so it was nice to have that dialed down to about 22/24. Although I've now been reading that they are a disaster for carbon rims, which is what I have. Now I'm not sure how to play that. I don't really see it being a problem in the front, but maybe in the rear. Anyone else using on carbon rims? I have the LB 35mm DH rims. Perhaps I can keep the pressure up in the back, as that will take some load off the impacts on the inner core. But maybe that defeats the purpose. But low outer pressure obviously means you have much great frequency and higher force of strikes against the inner core, so maybe at about 30psi it will just act as a rim bead protector and not take so much force it crushes the rim.

I did take one considerable hit on a rock and it made a positive difference. I could feel where it bottomed out the outer chamber and the inner kicked in and prevented a rim strike. The rim held up ok. But dammit I should have checked my spoke tension more often, as one of them threaded out and the nipple is floating around inside now. That will be a pain in the ass to fix. I already had the very unfortunate/stupid situation of putting the front tire on backwards so I've already done that one twice FFS.

Well, after enjoying NO flats or dents because of the Procore on my enduro during the last weeks I am about to order a second set for my new downhill bike.

It has the Giant house brand alloy rims. And I ran very high pressures because of defects on park days. Another procore might be cheaper than new rims ;-)

And at the same time it rides so much better AND gives peace of mind.

What exactly is supposed to be bad for carbon rims with procore? The high core pressure or impacts to the beads?
On 40mm inner width the core might not be wide enough to protect the rim walls?

What exactly is supposed to be bad for carbon rims with procore? The high core pressure or impacts to the beads?
On 40mm inner width the core might not be wide enough to protect the rim walls?

Supposedly the impacts against the high pressure core on the rim bed where the spoke holes are.

Was all stoked about rim protection, but now I'm worried I'm doing the opposite.

I wonder if at lower pressure the sidewall will be finished before the tread is. Not sure about this theory though.

So I just pulled apart my rear setup to retrieve the nipple that unthreaded into my rim, and took a good look at my tire. The sidewall after one light-ish day in the park (~8-10 laps) is already showing a lot more wear than usual with visible threads already, while the tread itself looks very fresh. I think I'm going to put the pressure up to about 34 next time and see how that goes or I'm going to be shredding tires way too fast. This may also prevent the carbon rim from being damage from hitting the core too hard.

So I just pulled apart my rear setup to retrieve the nipple that unthreaded into my rim, and took a good look at my tire. The sidewall after one light-ish day in the park (~8-10 laps) is already showing a lot more wear than usual with visible threads already, while the tread itself looks very fresh. I think I'm going to put the pressure up to about 34 next time and see how that goes or I'm going to be shredding tires way too fast. This may also prevent the carbon rim from being damage from hitting the core too hard.

This is the downside to low pressures; you flex the casing much more and wear it out faster. I haven't had any issues with this yet but I agree that the threads showing and the "X" marks on the casing are there more than before.

As for the carbon hoops, yes there can be an issue with the thin rim bed and procore. Try going down in pressure, to 55 or 60. I haven't had any downsides to this yet.

This is the downside to low pressures; you flex the casing much more and wear it out faster. I haven't had any issues with this yet but I agree that the threads showing and the "X" marks on the casing are there more than before.

As for the carbon hoops, yes there can be an issue with the thin rim bed and procore. Try going down in pressure, to 55 or 60. I haven't had any downsides to this yet.

Ray from Derby Rims told me not to run more than 60psi in the inner tire, maybe for this reason.