Options for New 26" Trail Bikes?

don't be angry kram

I'm not angry that there's more than one wheel size. I just don't like people making out like I'm being unreasonable if my number one choice is not bigger than 26"

there are great bikes in all wheel sizes.

I agree. But what is great for one person is not necessarily great for another. I've ridden some crappy 26ers and I've yet to throw a leg over a 650 or 29er I like. Been on plenty of 26ers that feel amazing in the first 10 seconds even though I'm not used to them. But I'll keep an open mind particularly about the new nomad. If it's clearly better, I'll be a convert. But it needs to be better and not just shiny.

i'd argue that wheel size has far less effect on ride quality and characteristics than does geometry, suspension design and tuning, the right balance of stiffness and compliance in the right areas, and component choice (especially tires).

If you took two bikes that were completely optimized, with the same tires, suspension, materials and components and all the geo was completely dialled and you can't notice a difference between the wheelsizes, then you probably aren't paying attention. It's up to you to decide if you think one is better than the other, but surely you can admit there will be a difference, can't you? And if there's a difference, you will have a preference (which may differ depending on terrain). And that preference will be the same as some people and the opposite of other people. Whether that difference is bigger or smaller than 1D of headangle is arguable I suppose, but I really don't see from my experiences so far that it would be anything but a reasonable amount bigger.

the tallboy was a miracle, arguably the world's first great 29er.

I'm not going to argue that the Tallboy isn't the bike of many people's dreams. But there's no way I would be able to ride one down Larvacide or Labour of Love. I'm not big enough. I can't even get my ass to clear a 650B when things get really steep with sharp turns. That makes it a great bike for some people and a crap bike for me. Partly because of my size, but mostly because of the majority of the riding I do. Maybe I would grow to love it if I actually rode Hoods or WOM or Recycle, but I didn't ride any of those this year at all.

the bronson isn't a great bike, but some 27's are truly great, like the new kona's - you should try one. i doubt you hated the bronson because of its wheels, but rather its weird harsh mid-stroke, a distinct difference from bikes like the nomad.

This isn't directed at you, but it seems funny that the Bronson is often touted as the killer 650 bike to rule them all until someone comes along and says they don't like it. But hey, I agree with you that it's not great so I won't argue, but my biggest complaint was the handling, not the suspension (even though that sucked compared to a push linked coil nomad, but no surprise there). I didn't like the Norco I rode either, and the brief time I spent trying to get a converted carbine to drift didn't end with anything positive to say. Perhaps the new Kona is different. But here's quick story for you… recently my friend went for a ride with a guy who was on a gen 1 nomad that was falling apart. At the end of the ride he saw a new 650 Kona in the guy's car and asked what was up with that. He said it was his, but he was selling it because he didn't like it and would rather ride his bucket of bolts. Maybe I wouldn't agree, and I'll happily have a go given the opportunity, but clearly not everyone likes it; even some people who've dropped the cash.

i love my stumpy evo 26 and my 29er hardtail equally. it has nothing to do with their wheel size, they're just well designed bikes.

I can totally understand that you can like more than one bike. Maybe you would actually consider riding your 29er hardtail down Trespasser, but I suspect you would prefer your Evo. And that's really what it comes down to; horses for courses (and individuals). I love riding my 26 hardtail once a year in the bike park down Original Sin, Shale Meister, Goats optional lines etc, but if you told me the industry was only going to make hardtails from now on because they are more efficient and they don't want to have to carry stock of multiple frames, I'd be an angry little man.

This isn't intended to be another rant, and hopefully sounds more like a reasonable debate. I want to try a new nomad when they are out. I love SC bikes but I think they sucked it on the Bronson especially when they are sending their pros out to ride them in World Cup enduro when they have a way better bike for that. But they may really nail it with the Nomad and if they do I will buy one. But I'm not going to get any taller than 5'8", and last time I rode a 650 down Labor of Love I got hit in the ass with the wheel enough times that I was walking by the end of Dope Slope, so it's going to be interesting to see how they can get around that one.

But I'm not going to get any taller than 5'8", and last time I rode a 650 down Labor of Love I got hit in the ass with the wheel enough times that I was walking by the end of Dope Slope, so it's going to be interesting to see how they can get around that one.

So wait…..all this and you don't fit mid-sized wheeled bikes, let alone 29ers? Should have said this in the beginning and we could have avoided this conversation. If the shoe doesn't fit…

if I were buying a 26 frame nowadays I'd try to scoop a killer deal on a used frame, I think the resale is gonna take a hit with all the 650b hype

I'm not angry that there's more than one wheel size. I just don't like people making out like I'm being unreasonable if my number one choice is not bigger than 26"

I agree. But what is great for one person is not necessarily great for another. I've ridden some crappy 26ers and I've yet to throw a leg over a 650 or 29er I like. Been on plenty of 26ers that feel amazing in the first 10 seconds even though I'm not used to them. But I'll keep an open mind particularly about the new nomad. If it's clearly better, I'll be a convert. But it needs to be better and not just shiny.

If you took two bikes that were completely optimized, with the same tires, suspension, materials and components and all the geo was completely dialled and you can't notice a difference between the wheelsizes, then you probably aren't paying attention. It's up to you to decide if you think one is better than the other, but surely you can admit there will be a difference, can't you? And if there's a difference, you will have a preference (which may differ depending on terrain). And that preference will be the same as some people and the opposite of other people. Whether that difference is bigger or smaller than 1D of headangle is arguable I suppose, but I really don't see from my experiences so far that it would be anything but a reasonable amount bigger.

I'm not going to argue that the Tallboy isn't the bike of many people's dreams. But there's no way I would be able to ride one down Larvacide or Labour of Love. I'm not big enough. I can't even get my ass to clear a 650B when things get really steep with sharp turns. That makes it a great bike for some people and a crap bike for me. Partly because of my size, but mostly because of the majority of the riding I do. Maybe I would grow to love it if I actually rode Hoods or WOM or Recycle, but I didn't ride any of those this year at all.

This isn't directed at you, but it seems funny that the Bronson is often touted as the killer 650 bike to rule them all until someone comes along and says they don't like it. But hey, I agree with you that it's not great so I won't argue, but my biggest complaint was the handling, not the suspension (even though that sucked compared to a push linked coil nomad, but no surprise there). I didn't like the Norco I rode either, and the brief time I spent trying to get a converted carbine to drift didn't end with anything positive to say. Perhaps the new Kona is different. But here's quick story for you… recently my friend went for a ride with a guy who was on a gen 1 nomad that was falling apart. At the end of the ride he saw a new 650 Kona in the guy's car and asked what was up with that. He said it was his, but he was selling it because he didn't like it and would rather ride his bucket of bolts. Maybe I wouldn't agree, and I'll happily have a go given the opportunity, but clearly not everyone likes it; even some people who've dropped the cash.

I can totally understand that you can like more than one bike. Maybe you would actually consider riding your 29er hardtail down Trespasser, but I suspect you would prefer your Evo. And that's really what it comes down to; horses for courses (and individuals). I love riding my 26 hardtail once a year in the bike park down Original Sin, Shale Meister, Goats optional lines etc, but if you told me the industry was only going to make hardtails from now on because they are more efficient and they don't want to have to carry stock of multiple frames, I'd be an angry little man.

This isn't intended to be another rant, and hopefully sounds more like a reasonable debate. I want to try a new nomad when they are out. I love SC bikes but I think they sucked it on the Bronson especially when they are sending their pros out to ride them in World Cup enduro when they have a way better bike for that. But they may really nail it with the Nomad and if they do I will buy one. But I'm not going to get any taller than 5'8", and last time I rode a 650 down Labor of Love I got hit in the ass with the wheel enough times that I was walking by the end of Dope Slope, so it's going to be interesting to see how they can get around that one.

Could not have said it better myself. As a fellow 5'8ish person.

Until one has put in serious time on a different technology, pretty hard to speak with authority on the subject. For those that speak against bigger wheels, they haven't invested the time or resources to fully reap the benefits of larger wheels.

So wait…..all this and you don't fit mid-sized wheeled bikes, let alone 29ers? Should have said this in the beginning and we could have avoided this conversation. If the shoe doesn't fit…

Well this is great because we are getting somewhere. 650BS according to you has gone from being technology to something more akin to shoe size after just a few posts.

I just double checked and I'm 176cm which is actually just over 5'9", which puts me exactly at the average Canadian height to the millimetre, which is a really nice bonus to moving here because I'm Australian and I was a couple of cm's shorter than average there, which nobody enjoys.

You own a shop don't you? If not, let's pretend just for a moment you do.
If I phone you on Monday looking for a 26er do you tell me it's old technology and I need to spend time and resources on a 650B to fully appreciate it? And then when I arrive on Tuesday and say I'm looking for a 650B do you tell me I'm too short for one since I'm only average height? Because that's how your posts read.

if I were buying a 26 frame nowadays I'd try to scoop a killer deal on a used frame, I think the resale is gonna take a hit with all the 650b hype

Keeping my eyes out for when TRC's with 142mm take a big resale hit. Probably the last good low travel hooligan carbon bike that can fit a coil the world will ever see.

I'm 5'10" and think the trance sx I've been riding fits great, rides amazing too…and definitely no problems on tight trails and/or tech and steeps.

[HTML_REMOVED]stirstirstir[HTML_REMOVED]

also going to be selling a giant reign, new frame, new der, new fork, and a smattering of chromag stuff…..get 26" before they're all gone, gone, GONE!

Well this is great because we are getting somewhere. 650BS according to you has gone from being technology to something more akin to shoe size after just a few posts.

I just double checked and I'm 176cm which is actually just over 5'9", which puts me exactly at the average Canadian height to the millimetre, which is a really nice bonus to moving here because I'm Australian and I was a couple of cm's shorter than average there, which nobody enjoys.

You own a shop don't you? If not, let's pretend just for a moment you do.
If I phone you on Monday looking for a 26er do you tell me it's old technology and I need to spend time and resources on a 650B to fully appreciate it? And then when I arrive on Tuesday and say I'm looking for a 650B do you tell me I'm too short for one since I'm only average height? Because that's how your posts read.

Your personal reason for disliking bigger wheels is a fit issue that you alone have. Another 5'9" person could feel very comfortable on bigger wheels, and as such, enjoy the benefits of them. It's a personal choice, that varies from rider to rider. Personal choice doesn't change the technological benefits that the larger wheels offer. Same reason there are people here on this board who are 6'4" and vouch for the fit and function of, say, the Enduro 29.

[HTML_REMOVED]stirstirstir[HTML_REMOVED]

Feel free to stir away, but I have no issue with anyone else liking a 650. I think it's awesome that you like your new bike better than your old one.

Your personal reason for disliking bigger wheels is a fit issue that you alone have.

So wait…..all this and you don't fit mid-sized wheeled bikes, let alone 29ers? Should have said this in the beginning and we could have avoided this conversation. If the shoe doesn't fit…

My personal reasons for not liking a 650 are many, none of which is the mystical fit issue YOU raised.

I never said the damn thing didn't fit. I said the wheel hit me in the ass on Labor of Love. If you haven't ridden that trail you might understand why when you do. I gave the bike to my buddy who is 6 foot tall at least and on the first gnarly bit it hit him in the ass too and he gave it right back to me. And he used to ride a 29er for short while (and he had a shitty time on Labour of Love on that thing too). My other comment about height was related to 29ers on Larvacide. I have no doubt that someone out there could ride a Tallboy down Larvacide and make it look good, but I've seen lots of good riders struggle to get any bike down it. All I'm saying is I can ride a 26 down it and have fun but I sure as hell couldn't ride a Tallboy down it. You may choose to call me out for not having the skills to do so, but I believe it's because I'm not tall enough to handle a 29er in that terrain. Can I get a Tallboy that fits? Of course I can. Doesn't mean it's going to suit my preferred terrain. I highly doubt it would suit you on Larvacide or Trespasser either, but I'd love to watch you try and would be really impressed if you made it look good.

It seems that anytime I have a conversation about wheel size with anyone whether it's in person or on the internet I am always misunderstood. So let me try and be clear here one more time…

I have no problem with anyone else liking bigger wheels
I don't like any bigger wheeled bike I have tried so far
I may like one in the future if it feels right
Specifically, I prefer 26" wheels because I prefer the handing, especially when it comes to drifting and also on very steep and tight terrain.
My opinion is based on testing bikes on my favorite trails.
I am not angry about the existence of bigger wheels
It totally pisses me off when people tell me there's some 'whateverthefuckinreason' why I am completely unreasonable to prefer 26 and I will come around if they just talk enough shit.

Enjoy yourselves on your big wheels. Let me and others who are happy on 26 do the same. Admit there are those who share my opinion for justifiable reasons after extensive testing and I'm sure we can all get along.

EDIT:

Another 5'9" person could feel very comfortable on bigger wheels, and as such, enjoy the benefits of them. It's a personal choice, that varies from rider to rider. Personal choice doesn't change the technological benefits that the larger wheels offer. Same reason there are people here on this board who are 6'4" and vouch for the fit and function of, say, the Enduro 29.

This I completely agree with and have often said, from the very beginning. Apart from the part where you call wheel size technology. And lets not forget when it comes to physics it works both ways. More momentum = slower acceleration to name one of a few. Some benefits and some negatives. So while they get to enjoy the benefits they will also suffer the negatives. You get to decide if it's worth the tradeoff for you, and I'll decide if it's worth the tradeoff for me. I'm glad you now admit that it's a personal choice and not a matter of not having put the time or resources in. Now if I can just help you see that along with benefits there are negatives (isn't physics fun?), then perhaps we can put this to bed.

Clark is right, it's all about geo.

People get hung up on wheelsize but larger wheels just enable more options for vertical weight distribution which ultimately causes them to ride the way they do. Bikes weigh nothing, we're the mass in the vehicle. Where that mass is located horizontally (see Aaron Gwinn:)) or vertically (the main cause for the difference in 26/29" ride characteristics) is more or less everything.

I don't know what 29'ers you have ridden Kram but I'm just over 5'8" and a medium Specialized 29'er fits me okay (with a 30/40mm stem/flat bar). I agree about the Bronson though. Oddly progressive suspension rate and very, very, stiff frame made it feel like I had 50lbs too much spring rate and a load of damping platform. Still, they're selling thousands so WTF do I know!

Edit: I just read about your "tires hitting your ass issue" on the 29'er. Fair enough. I've never taken one down anything near that rowdy. I'm too old for that shit. Good luck to ya!

Now if I can just help you see that along with benefits there are negatives (isn't physics fun?), then perhaps we can put this to bed.

Hey, we have 4 months of winter left. This is gonna go on for a while.

Hey, we have 4 months of winter left. This is gonna go on for a while.

Hopefully it snows soon and I'll forget all about the internet (and wheels) :)

First off I'll say I'm not too keen on jumping on the 27.5 band wagon until there is a bit time for the dust to settle. just last year I bought the S-works enduro that should tie me over for the next year or so.

I will say when I had a Bighit that had a 24" rear and I made the jump to a reg. bike with a 26" it took more than a ride or 2 till I didn't tag my ass on the rear wheel. I would think the same thing could happen jumping from 26 to 27.5. I'm in no way saying get a 27.5, just saying rubbing your ass at first might not be a big deal.

For me I want to wait because I think the geo will likely still see a few changes over the next little bit and I'm not so impressed with tire selection at the moment.

Maybe Kram just sucks at riding steep trails?

Stop riding like the guys in NSX1 hanging off the back of a hardtail and you'll stop getting a tire in the ass.