OK all you know it alls

last years Lyric is on sale but it would cost extra to have the travel lowered to 150 for my hardtail. The hardtail fork is a 36 elite Fit4 damper 150 travel.  Also available is a Manitou Mezzer pro with a more easily adjusted travel. A bit more cash though. I was thinking Mattoc but those aren’t available from S4. Maybe not made any more? All the reviews are old so perhaps the Mattoc is discontinued. Anyway, of the two Lyric or Mezzer would you guys chose? My 36 is working fine but it’s 5 years old and maybe there are better things out there now.

I had a 9 year old Fox 36 RC2 that worked great the whole time I owned it and my buddy is still riding it a few years later. So if the current fork is working well I'd just service it regularly and ride it.

Posted by: Vikb

I had a 9 year old Fox 36 RC2 that worked great the whole time I owned it and my buddy is still riding it a few years later. So if the current fork is working well I'd just service it regularly and ride it.

Agree. 

If you're set on a new one (and since you're asking for opinions) I'd pick the Mezzer. More tweakable, more novelty, and more spare parts availability (where I am). 

Yes, pretty sure the Mattoc is discontinued.

Posted by: Vikb

I had a 9 year old Fox 36 RC2 that worked great the whole time I owned it and my buddy is still riding it a few years later. So if the current fork is working well I'd just service it regularly and ride it.

Fair comment. That is a good option too. The fork I have looks more beat than it is. The lowers are totally scuffed, decals missing and a few nicks on the stanchions. The last time it was serviced it felt kind of over damped and stiff. I just did a lowers service and it’s good now. The question is more about how much better is a modern up to date fork over one that’s 5 years old and wasn’t so called top of the line when new.

Shitty advice not asked for: Could sell the 36, buy the new model Lyrik in 150mm.

I wouldn’t hesitate to get the 2022 Lyrik, or even a 150 Pike. They are great forks.

Posted by: Vikb

I had a 9 year old Fox 36 RC2 that worked great the whole time I owned it and my buddy is still riding it a few years later. So if the current fork is working well I'd just service it regularly and ride it.

+1 for this. A thorough rebuild, upgrade some internals will totally bring it back to life for like <$200.

Another vote for keeping your current fork.

36 FIT4 was pretty much top end in the Fox lineup 5 year ago, not sure why you say it wasn't.

Have forks become better since? Sure, but IMHO forks passed some kind of threshold long ago where they became more than good enough and every subsequent improvement has been marginal.

Just curious if your CSU has never creaked? That's pretty much the main issue I've had with all my forks in the last 10 years.

Posted by: niels

36 FIT4 was pretty much top end in the Fox lineup 5 year ago, not sure why you say it wasn't.

Have forks become better since? Sure, but IMHO forks passed some kind of threshold long ago where they became more than good enough and every subsequent improvement has been marginal.

I never said it wasn’t top end. My real question was whether or not new forks are really any better than a five year old design. Way way back when we had all of 50mm of travel, fork technology was improving in leaps and bounds every year. That’s not happening any more near as I can tell although many reviewers will say otherwise. I only weigh around 145 with clothes and packs so creaking of a 36 is unlikely. Hasn’t happened yet. 

I’m also one who will retire components for safety reasons. Like bars and stems. I’ve seen forks snap off but that was in the before times. Before good suspension. 

But thanks for this Niels.  This is what I was searching for I think. Justification to run the old fork longer.

I'm ~190lbs out of the shower and I haven't retired a suspension fork due to safety concerns to date. I just keep 'em rolling until the bike they are on is sold complete or they won't work on any of the remaining bikes in the fleet [100->110mm or 26er->275->29er]. At least from say 2009 onwards I haven't had any real performance concerns with the forks I've bought. I tend to buy middle of the road to lower top end forks mostly shopping sales due to the $$$ involved. 

I do service my forks regularly which really helps their longevity and performance.

The last fork I bought was a Marzochi Z1 which was at a reasonable MSRP + on discount. For an affordable fork the performance is on par with anything else I am running that all had significantly higher MSRPs.

Now that I have all the bikes on 29er wheels and 110mm hubs I expect to keep the current crop of forks in the fleet for many years. I'll just move them around as needed. That makes me happy. Since they are one of the bigger $$ parts I want to get as much use out of them as possible.

Posted by: andy-eunson

I never said it wasn’t top end. My real question was whether or not new forks are really any better than a five year old design. Way way back when we had all of 50mm of travel, fork technology was improving in leaps and bounds every year. That’s not happening any more near as I can tell although many reviewers will say otherwise. I only weigh around 145 with clothes and packs so creaking of a 36 is unlikely. Hasn’t happened yet. 

I’m also one who will retire components for safety reasons. Like bars and stems. I’ve seen forks snap off but that was in the before times. Before good suspension. 

But thanks for this Niels.  This is what I was searching for I think. Justification to run the old fork longer.

I may have misunderstood "5 years old and wasn’t so called top of the line when new". Anyway it doesn't matter.

Safety wise the creaking CSUs have been my only concern and that's why I've always replaced them. Otherwise I think snapping forks are something of the distant past and I'm not worried at all about it.

About reviewers claiming significant performance improvements, I think that they are not necessarily wrong but it can sometimes be difficult to put things into perspective if someone always gets to ride all the latest and greatest stuff and that becomes their frame of reference.

Posted by: Vikb

I'm ~190lbs out of the shower and I haven't retired a suspension fork due to safety concerns to date. I just keep 'em rolling until the bike they are on is sold complete or they won't work on any of the remaining bikes in the fleet [100->110mm or 26er->275->29er]. At least from say 2009 onwards I haven't had any real performance concerns with the forks I've bought. I tend to buy middle of the road to lower top end forks mostly shopping sales due to the $$$ involved. 

I do service my forks regularly which really helps their longevity and performance.

You really don't want to be there when a fork decides to retire you. I've broken crowns on forks, one set back in the day tore right off the bike. I was pretty gun shy after that. I also saw an old 888 brought into the shop in Whistler in 6 pieces - obviously an extreme case of a fork that got passed from rental to hand to hand and lived through way too many cycles, but a cautionary tale nonetheless. The bigger the guy the earlier the retirement, or at least downgrade what it's used for. I'm on a 3-4 year cycle - the first 3 are active use and then another year or two sitting around or on a backup bike. After that a newer fork with all the new standards cycles through the process and takes its place because I can't have any fun on a 51mm offset crown.

Posted by: craw

Posted by: Vikb

I'm ~190lbs out of the shower and I haven't retired a suspension fork due to safety concerns to date. I just keep 'em rolling until the bike they are on is sold complete or they won't work on any of the remaining bikes in the fleet [100->110mm or 26er->275->29er]. At least from say 2009 onwards I haven't had any real performance concerns with the forks I've bought. I tend to buy middle of the road to lower top end forks mostly shopping sales due to the $$$ involved. 

I do service my forks regularly which really helps their longevity and performance.

You really don't want to be there when a fork decides to retire you. I've broken crowns on forks, one set back in the day tore right off the bike. I was pretty gun shy after that. I also saw an old 888 brought into the shop in Whistler in 6 pieces - obviously an extreme case of a fork that got passed from rental to hand to hand and lived through way too many cycles, but a cautionary tale nonetheless. The bigger the guy the earlier the retirement, or at least downgrade what it's used for. I'm on a 3-4 year cycle - the first 3 are active use and then another year or two sitting around or on a backup bike. After that a newer fork with all the new standards cycles through the process and takes its place because I can't have any fun on a 51mm offset crown.

I’ll never forget seeing a friend of mine a day or two after his fork snapped off. Fully rigid bike. Mantis I think so not a cheap one. Well over 100 stitches to his face from tearing his cheek open. I snapped a fork myself probably due to me over tightening the crown bolts on the steer tube.

Posted by: craw

You really don't want to be there when a fork decides to retire you. I've broken crowns on forks, one set back in the day tore right off the bike. I was pretty gun shy after that. I also saw an old 888 brought into the shop in Whistler in 6 pieces - obviously an extreme case of a fork that got passed from rental to hand to hand and lived through way too many cycles, but a cautionary tale nonetheless. The bigger the guy the earlier the retirement, or at least downgrade what it's used for. I'm on a 3-4 year cycle - the first 3 are active use and then another year or two sitting around or on a backup bike. After that a newer fork with all the new standards cycles through the process and takes its place because I can't have any fun on a 51mm offset crown.

I don't take any chances on the front of my bike. I send my forks to Vorsprung as required for damper service based on the recommended service intervals and I do my own lower service. If they tell me there is any safety issue or I notice anything that concerns me I would either fix or retire the fork immediately. That said I have no concerns about using a quality fork for a decade just due to age alone. As you note there have been standard changes/wheel size changes and I do sometimes sell a bike complete so typically my forks see ~4-5 years of regular use before they move on, but I'm pretty settled on 29er/110mm spacing these days and not likely to follow any new trends/standards without a lot of motivation so the current crop of forks I own should see a longer service life.

My forks are on the burly side of the set of reasonable choices for my weight/terrain/speed. I do maintain them well. I am a "light" rider vs. a "smasher". I don't have savage crashes with any frequency. I rarely destroy bike parts/frames. So this informs my choices for what is reasonable/safe. I have friends that ride the same trails and pretty similar speeds who hammer their bikes into submission and break lots of parts. If I was them I would likely use a given fork for less time. 

I don't buy used forks and I don't loan out my forks. So I do know everything that's happened to them over their lives.