NSMB - 2023 - Hardtails Leaning Against Stuff Thread

How tall are you? 

CS length?

I'm 185cm - on the Murmur (XL 515R, 445CS, 76SA ~1300WB) it doesn't loop out on any of our steepest climbs. Gearing / legs are limiting factors not geo. Solaris (~475R, 444CS, 74SA ~ 1250WB) gets light on really steep climbs - you have to scootch forward onto the nose of the saddle. But for most climbs it's fine. I always climb seated on both bikes so the long CS helps.

The trails sound similar to here in Surrey, UK. Generally XC but punchy ups and downs with longer flat connecting bridalways. That's quite a general use case. You don't want to go too steep on the STA otherwise you end up with more load on your hands on the flats.  This is where the Solaris is good.  My L Krampus was better in that it had a slacker STA but looped out easily even with 446CS.

I'm 188cm but high ape index (longer than normal arms). 440mm CS, I think those will have to get slightly longer to accommodate the biggest tires I want to run (26x5.05", 791mm OD).

The other thing I'm concerned about is getting the saddle too far forwards so it interferes with my legs while standing, but I'm not sure if that's a real problem or not.

Personally I would go longer CSs to balance F/R.  On my bikes the Solaris is about right and Murmur is maybe 10mm too short.

It will be interesting to get other peoples (on this thread) take on it.

Posted by: fartymarty

Personally I would go longer CSs to balance F/R.  On my bikes the Solaris is about right and Murmur is maybe 10mm too short.

It will be interesting to get other peoples (on this thread) take on it.

I've got about two months before I have to commit, so plenty of time for me to agonize over it. I'm planning on sliders/swingers too so there'll be some adjustability... maybe shortest at seat tube clearance for the huge tire and then I can go up to 20mm longer with the dropouts?

It's beginning to feel a bit like winter. Go back and forth between running full 29 and mullet on the 2019 GG Pedalhead. Mullet is pretty crazy, BB around 305mm and HTA around 62.5º.

I was trying hard to fight the urge, but I ended up ordering a Chromag Wideangle frame this weekend, those prices were just too damn tempting! So once that comes in I'll be parting over the Pedalhead for the most part, thinking I'll run the Wideangle mullet to start w/ a 140 or 150 fork and see how it goes. Might try to pick up a cheap 275 fork eventually, but that would mean new front wheel too (but I do love building a wheel over winter).

Posted by: TristanC
What I'm debating is, how far to go with STA vs. longer chainstays to keep the front end down without losing back end traction? And also not make it ride super weird with a shorter fork, since I generally run rigid in the winter and the longest rigid fork Walt can make is 505mm A-C and the squishy fork is 550mm A-C. 

Yep, it definitely looks like you’re aiming toward something very similar to my custom! 

I switch between a 140 Fox 34 (29+) and a ~507 rigid (27fat). Geometry was designed around the rigid fork, which I thought was a good idea as the 34 can always be lowered or run with more sag. In practice I have never found the difference in a2c to be problematic.

With the rigid fork I spec’d a 76° SA and 455-475mm chainstays. I prefer the shorter end of the range for the rigid as it can spin out on steep climbs in the longer position. With the suspension fork I’ll just run it at 470mm which is better for descending as well. There’s way more traction in the summer in general so spinning out is much harder. I think front end and BB height is part of what makes a bike balanced for climbing just as much as STA or CS length.

I wouldn’t worry about the wheelbase, either. An inch is only 2% once you’re in the 1300 club! I kept tabs on the fc:rc ratio in my design but that was more for descending balance.

Posted by: Blofeld

Yep, it definitely looks like you’re aiming toward something very similar to my custom!

Good to know I'm not totally off base with my numbers. I'm pretty adaptable to different bikes, so I don't think anything in the normal range is going to make or break the design for me.

My biggest concern with the wheelbase is making sure it still fits on my 1Up rack (1372mm wheelbase max, creeping up on that pretty quick!).

Current thoughts:

Posted by: TristanC

Current thoughts:

Oooh, that’s a substantial front end! 4” of additional RAD compared to the ICT (2” of which will be reeled in by the stem).

Keep in mind that the HA/SA will be steeper with sag and more like 77° with the rigid fork.

Posted by: Blofeld

Oooh, that’s a substantial front end! 4” of additional RAD compared to the ICT (2” of which will be reeled in by the stem).

Keep in mind that the HA/SA will be steeper with sag and more like 77° with the rigid fork.

Yeah, it's a little bit big. Colossal, even. But I found this, and while it's sized for a smaller rider, it suggests I'm not barking up the totally wrong tree...

The 550mm A-C is a sagged 140mm Manitou Mastodon, it's 571mm A-C unsagged. It's an enormous fork to clear 26x5.05" tires.

It's long.  My XL Murmur is 1300mm with 515 reach and fits me at 185cm.

It would be sensible to check Geometron / Nicolas sizing charts for comparison.

Posted by: TristanC
Yeah, it's a little bit big. Colossal, even. But I found this, and while it's sized for a smaller rider, it suggests I'm not barking up the totally wrong tree...

The 550mm A-C is a sagged 140mm Manitou Mastodon, its 571mm A-C unsagged. It's an enormous fork to clear 26x5.05" tires.

Gotcha. With such a big a2c shift between forks I guess you’ve picked a pretty happy medium for STA. 

Kruch does make some cool bikes! I think you have your reach at about 550 or 560, which is 40mm longer than even the XXL Tauntaun’s. Great rationalization to go custom even though you’re not unusually tall.

Posted by: fartymarty

Out of interest do the Canadian made Chromags ride similar to the Taiwanese ones?  I assume they do.

Marty, from just my personal experience. They do. After the 2007 Chromag Samurai made by Mike Truelove was destroyed got my hands shortly after on a Wideangle made in Taiwan. 

The Wideangle I had was a Taiwan made copy of the Samurai frame and really didn't notice the difference between the two. Despite the frame going to 27.5" wheel size. As far as I could tell it rode the same as the 2007 Samurai. Hell if it hadn't been destroyed in 2019 would still happily riding through the woods on the 2007 Samurai with middle finger raised giving zero fucks about what the big industry said I needed. LOL

Stylus wise especially the modern generation frames I have no clue if there is a made in Canada model to compare too. As I recall from talking to Ian at Chromag back in 2007 the 2007 Stylus was the made in Taiwan version of the made in Canada TRL frame. So assume it rode similar. Miss that old frame.

Keep in mind this is just my personal observation of two older Chromag models with the older geometry. Thoigh if someone wants to donate an older TRL and Stylus frame I would not say no. LOL

Endurimil - good to know.  I would think Chromag would design their frames to be the same irrespective of where they are made.

"with middle finger raised giving zero fucks about what the big industry said I needed" - Love it.  I think this opinion is shared by a few others on this thread - myself included.

Posted by: fartymarty

Endurimil - good to know.  I would think Chromag would design their frames to be the same irrespective of where they are made.

"with middle finger raised giving zero fucks about what the big industry said I needed" - Love it.  I think this opinion is shared by a few others on this thread - myself included.

To be honest I like that Chromag went both ways with their frames. Giving those with the means to get a handmade in Canada frame while offering a similar frame made in Taiwan for those who can't shell out for the made in Canada version. I know back in March 2007 when due to circumstances the original plan to get a Canadian TRL frame was shelved and  the made in Taiwan Stylus still gave one an option to ride a Chromag. 

And some of zero fucks view has been further fueled by the crap spewed by a few Pinkbike staff a few weeks ago.