NSMB - 2022 - Hardtail Thread...

I find the HTP guy a good reviewer too. Makes a statement/observation and backs it up by saying that’s his impression of a bike and it doesn’t have to be yours. 

Like when he said chromags tended to be too stiff for him, but it’s just because he’s not that heavy of a guy so maybe it will work for you. Pretty balanced reviews I think - I saw this thing about a thing, but you might be ok with it.

Posted by: UFO

I put together a kids Kona Kula 24 earlier this year that is still too big for my kid, but came across the opportunity to upgrade to a more proper modern kids HT frame which also fits a deeper post. The Honzo 24 sports a 67.5 HA and 74.5 SA with the stock 24 fork, with the 100mm 26 fork it's right around 65 and 72 now

My next project is to figure out how to route the dropper cable.

They still make the KS Lev https://kssuspension.com/product/lev/ which would save you having to drill anything. You could probably run the housing along with the rest under the top tube.

Oh, I'm not complaining about HTP as I do enjoy his videos and the stoke on hardtails. I just question if there's a grey area between this modern geo and older geo that, say, requires less adjustment to riding style. I am contemplating a 1 or 2 degree slackening headset for my 67.5 degree chromag (which I know will also steepen the sta and lower the bb a bit) but am nervous it will take away from what I like. I'm an old dog and new tricks make my tail go between my legs.

I do see that a good chunk of this modern geo is actually the reach/top tube length though so slackening my older chromag wouldn't bring it to "modern" geo anyway.

:)

My kid saved money, I added the money we would usually have spent in a week of park riding in Austria, and he has a DMR Sect Pro....

Now I want a DJ hardtail as well, since we have a prime spot about 30 min away....

I emailed Curtis Bikes in England since I always found them beautifully made. Their DJ frame aptly named Trail Boss would set me back about 1500 Euros. Waiting list is 4 months min. 

Two souls, two voices....battling inside of me.

Posted by: BC_Nuggets

Youtube video on "modern" vs "traditional" hardtail geometry and the different riding technique required.

Is it really this black and white? No grey area? Is this guy trying to turn me off of my 67.5 degree head angle so I go and buy 64 degree head angle? I would think 67.5 degrees is a grey area. He seems to present it as all or none which really bugs the shit out of me. Ah youtube experts. Get off my lawn.

I would take anything Hardtail Party says with a grain of salt.

That technique thing is definitely shades of grey and I’d argue that it’s defined more by front centre length (relative to the rider’s centre of mass) than by head angle or reach alone. Chainstays have hardly got longer but wheelbases have grown a lot size for size - over the last decade my hardtail’s grown by only about 15mm out back but about 150mm up front.

When a bike is that much longer at the front then you need to stay more central or even get forward to weight the front tyre but also you don’t need to lean back because the chance of going over the front is so diminished.

Thanks for the observations. I know I now run an unfashionably long stem (60 mm) from a previous 50mm and even that additional 10mm has really helped me as far as comfort, climbing, weighting the front wheel, aggressive positioning and descending doesn't seem too bad except for pucker moments on the really steep but an angleset and bigger fork should help. It's fun to experiment.

Posted by: heathen

I would take anything Hardtail Party says with a grain of salt.

This. Total hypebeast in the worst sense of the word. There's an old, allegedly African saying that applies "you can trust a man who is looking for the truth, but never trust a man who tells you he has found it".

Posted by: BC_Nuggets

Oh, I'm not complaining about HTP as I do enjoy his videos and the stoke on hardtails. I just question if there's a grey area between this modern geo and older geo that, say, requires less adjustment to riding style. I am contemplating a 1 or 2 degree slackening headset for my 67.5 degree chromag (which I know will also steepen the sta and lower the bb a bit) but am nervous it will take away from what I like. I'm an old dog and new tricks make my tail go between my legs.

I do see that a good chunk of this modern geo is actually the reach/top tube length though so slackening my older chromag wouldn't bring it to "modern" geo anyway.

:)

Buy the angleset. Worst case you sell it and recoup some of the cost. A -2 transformed my Krampus.

You will adjust to the new geo,just be prepared to tinker with bar height etc to get it right.

New school / old school depends on too many factors to be black and white.  All bike are different and need to be ridden and set up differently regardless of the geo numbers.

Posted by: Heinous

This. Total hypebeast in the worst sense of the word. There's an old, allegedly African saying that applies "you can trust a man who is looking for the truth, but never trust a man who tells you he has found it".

The folks writing for NSMB/PB/Vital/etc... all pontificate on what's good and what's not in the MTB world based on their opinions. I don't see HTP doing anything differently than them. When I watch a HTP video or read an article here that say Andrew writes I appreciate the perspective of somebody who actually cares about hardtails [a rare commodity in MTB media], knows enough about them from riding a long time and riding a variety of hardtails and creates content. HTP/Andrew/[fill in the black] all have areas were they know more and where they know less. They also have preferences I agree with and ones I don't. I'm not going to run out any buy a bike just because NSMB or PB or HTP liked it, but I will filter the salient parts of their reviews into by decision making process because they actually got to ride the bike in question.

There are elements of the HTP channel I don't love, but if you've got a better source for dedicated hardtail related information/reviews online let me know. Given how unlikely it is I'm going to walk into a LBS and see a hardtail I want to ride that I can demo having a source for reviews that has actually thrown a leg over a bunch of frames I'm interested in is useful...despite the fact I have different preferences than HTP.

And as I noted in a previous post I think HTP does frequently say that he likes a particular geo/set of parts for his body shape/skill level/local Sedona trails and that the viewer may want something else. So I don't see how he's doing anything off base from a reviewer's perspective. They all say "I like X, Y & Z" and "I don't like A, B & C". That's their job and it's the reader/viewer's job to figure out how applicable the review is to their own situation.

Posted by: fartymarty

Buy the angleset. Worst case you sell it and recoup some of the cost. A -2 transformed my Krampus.

Definitely. Easy upgrade and if you don't love it it's easy to remove/sell the headset.

Posted by: BC_Nuggets

Thanks for the observations. I know I now run an unfashionably long stem (60 mm) from a previous 50mm and even that additional 10mm has really helped me as far as comfort, climbing, weighting the front wheel, aggressive positioning and descending doesn't seem too bad except for pucker moments on the really steep but an angleset and bigger fork should help. It's fun to experiment.

Funny how stem lengths can become fashionable. I was told that my bike was designed for riders to run a 35mm stem. When I upgraded from the old version of my bike to the new version the only thing that changed was ESTA (went from 77 to 79) so the bike was the same except I lost 2cm of ETT. I couldn't get right on the new bike with a 35mm stem even after trying a bunch of different rise bars. I switch to a 50mm stem and it was perfect. It even looks proportional. Just glad I didn't have to go with something as gauche as a 60 ;)

Posted by: craw

Posted by: BC_Nuggets

Just glad I didn't have to go with something as gauche as a 60 ;)

In my defence, it's got some bears scratching their nuts on it so I've got SOME bike forum cred right? :)

I think I will go for a -2 degree headset.  Hopefully it doesn't lower my bottom bracket too much.  Probably want to get a longer fork at some point but maybe not if I like how the -2 degree works with 140mm.