NSMB - 2022 - Hardtail Thread...

Technically I built this back in 2020, but I haven't posted it here before and it is slowly recieving some upgrades and updates. It's the only bike I ride these days:  my Stanton Switch9er.

We just got back from a couple weeks with family in Humboldt County CA where I took it for some sweet rides in the redwoods and broke my finger in the process . . . whoops

Here's a photo from when I just built it up:

After years of riding a full suspension XC bike I've been really enjoying the hardtail experience as well as the benefits of modern slack geometry.

This year I'm planning to build another HT so my wife who is interested can start riding with me---and I'll be trying to build it up a little differently.

Posted by: reini-wagner

Posted by: sverdrup

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I am just starting a single speed experiment with it (my first time giving that a go), so would be interested to hear of others' setups on hardtails without sliders.  

That bike looks amazing, I had to look twice to realize it was not a before/after shot after a repaint. 

Interesting you matched a 160 fork with a 1° headset, how does that ride? 

I initially set up my large doctahawk (435mm chainstays) single speed and found the magic ratio at 34t front and 20t back. Both rings narrow wide (absolute black makes narrow wide ss cogs in 16,18 and 20t). I rode it like that a couple of times and never dropped a chain, even though there was some visible slack:

I tried running it with a 170mm Z1, and didn’t totally love the way the front end felt. I know it’s odd to describe a docta this way, but it felt high and steep to me. Some experimenting landed me on the 160mm 38 with angleset, which got me the slack head angle with the lower front end that I apparently was looking for. I also think the longer offset is doing something, but steering feel is voodoo for me. I just experiment until it feels right. I’m also running a 30 x 18 with similar slack until I figure out how to align a Paul Melvin tensioner. I have a microspline hub which has made finding parts more challenging.

Speaking of experiment, this bike feels like the first time I’ve been able to really get weird (it’s all relative) with a build. Andrew’s articles and the banter on this site definitely enabled that.

Riding a single speed hard tail with a 62 degree head angle and DH tires isn’t what I thought I wanted, but now that I’ve made it here, it just feels right.

Posted by: sverdrup

Speaking of experiment, this bike feels like the first time I’ve been able to really get weird (it’s all relative) with a build. Andrew’s articles and the banter on this site definitely enabled that.

Riding a single speed hard tail with a 62 degree head angle and DH tires isn’t what I thought I wanted, but now that I’ve made it here, it just feels right.

Ya. Geo charts are great, but you really do have to throw  a leg over a machine and see how all the little details come together to see how it really rides. Not being afraid to make some changes/adjustments can really unlock an amazing ride experience. I'm glad you got there on that Docta.

Posted by: trumpstinyhands

Re. tire pressures, I ran my bike with the stock 3.0 Minions and 29+ Cushcore front and rear for a good while. I found 15-16psi up front and around 18 in the rear worked well. Any softer and the bike would start to feel like a trampoline. As you alluded to on your first post, I'd stock up on 29+ tires if you want to keep the bike set up like that. Personally I find the 3" Bontrager SE4 tire significantly better than the stock Minions.

I had a genuine LOL moment when I put my bike on a scale (with EDC pump, multitool and I think a half full water bottle....) and it weighed in at 38lb.

Shortly after I cracked the rear rim so put the bike on a bit of a diet, building a standard 29er rear wheel, removing the front Cushcore and replacing the rear with a Tannus and adding a OneUp bar. It's lost a little comfort in the rear but not to the point of getting beaten up in the Park. With a 70+mm bottom bracket drop the pedals now drag along the floor with the smaller rear wheel ha ha.

If the 29+ wheels don't work out for you, you could probably just run 29er wheels and a 180mm air piston in the fork to raise the BB again, and pretty well turn the bike into a Doctahawk. The seat tube angle is so steep and reach long that I don't think it would screw up the geometry.

I will try to hunt down some of the Bontes so I have a couple extras, standing by for restocks on the minions too.  I’m really digging the bike.  Many thanks on psi and rubber recommendation.  

As a proper all-the-time Clydesdale (ex-Rugger 1 or 8 depending on fitness) I’m less concerned about the weight and didn’t notice it on first ride in up/down chunky New England tech.  Likely once I aim for some 15+ milers with it I’ll find maybe I want to shed weight, but better for me to drop that than the bike!

Posted by: Vikb

Posted by: earleb

Coloured cables....

Sure. Happy to give you more housing porn. ;-)

Do you run the Soma Dream Risers for trail riding?  I have some on my k-monkey and love them for generally riding around and a bit of light (very light) singletrack but haven’t ridden them on anything remotely challenging yet

Posted by: t_w

Do you run the Soma Dream Risers for trail riding?  I have some on my k-monkey and love them for generally riding around and a bit of light (very light) singletrack but haven’t ridden them on anything remotely challenging yet

I have ridden the Dream Bars on what I would call BCXC trails and it does just fine there. I don't like it when things get really steep and smashy. For all purpose BC mountain biking 16-17 degrees is my maximum back sweep. The Dream Bars are great for bikepacking/gravel-esque rides with some easy/moderate singletrack in the mix. YMMV of course and since you have one it's worth trying on some harder trails to see what you think.

Mid-range back sweep bars I'd use on my trail bike:

- Stooge Moto = 17 deg

- SQ Labs = 12 & 16 deg

That is interesting, I have a Z1 coil 170 mm on my Hawk, definitely don't need all of the travel but when I switched to 160mm I didn't like how it changed the bike. How well did the bike accept the angle set¿

Posted by: Vikb

That said I 100% sympathize with folks doing what they have to in order to ride a MTB comfortably. I'd make just about every headtube I see on a production frame 50+mm longer if I could. Since I don't want to go custom every time I buy a frame using spacers and a high rise bar is the other alternative open to me.

Vik agree  about that.  When I got the new Stylus last year the current geometry of current bike having the front so low ended up aggravating the injuries from getting hit. Higher rise bar and slightly narrower helped. But after seeing Andrew Majors bar set up and a few others will look at trying something a wee bit higher.

I think it's fair to say that, at least for the average rider, Stack heights have not grown anywhere near as much as they should have in conjunction with longer reaches. The reason that the average riser bar has gone from 15-25mm to 35-50mm isn't a change in personal preference. There are notable exceptions - like Banshee - but for the most part head tubes need to grow or we all need to get used to the taller-rise aesthetic. 

Plenty of people poked fun at my ProTaper 76mm riser setup - which was actually taller than what I needed but was still a fun experiment - but these days I see a lot of bikes rolling around with Chromag FU50 rise bars and 30mm of spacers under their stems, which is just as tall. Especially true of hardtails, which makes sense since Reach is growing as the fork moves through its travel and there are a lot of folks running 150-170mm forks.

Posted by: mrt

I will try to hunt down some of the Bontes so I have a couple extras, standing by for restocks on the minions too.  I’m really digging the bike.  Many thanks on psi and rubber recommendation.  

Bontrager has discontinued the SE4, sadly, so unless you can find a shop that's holding it isn't an option anymore. The XR4 has the same tread pattern but the sidewall is light-light-light so not the best for running low pressures - or anywhere with rocks. 

I know my preaching is getting a bit annoying, but pick up a 2.8" WTB Vigilante (Light / High Grip) while you can. As it currently stands, what WTB has for sale is all they'll have. At least as a front tire (I generally run something faster outback) it's the best of the (dying) bread of 29+ tires.

Posted by: sverdrup

I’m also running a 30 x 18 with similar slack until I figure out how to align a Paul Melvin tensioner. I have a microspline hub which has made finding parts more challenging.

Did you already pick up a Melvin? They're a really nice piece, quality made, piece of kit but with the lack of a clutch (and relatively light spring tension) I found it was pretty annoying noise-wise. Without ISCG tabs and with the PF-BB it's not possible to use a fixed tensioner at the front, and the clutch single-speed tensioners from SBO are big money. 

I had my best tensioner experience using a Shimano Zee rear derailleur with the super short cage with longer limit screws to dial in the position. It's very micro-adjustable and with the clutch tension being adjustable it's actually really easy to dial in. Makes it quick to swap cogs too so you can experiment with different setups. 

Cool rig!!!

Posted by: michel77

Yep, found a source on the elusive 2.8 Vigilante so got one of them plus an additional cushcore on the way :)

Cool. If you love-love it be sure to drop WTB a note and let them know you'd love the opportunity to purchase one again in the future!

Been wanting to try the 2.8 Vigilante! Do you think it'd work out with a Blunt 35 (internal 30mm) rim?

First time posting here, but long time reader. Here's my "big bike" hardtail. Chromag Rootdown with a 170 Lyrik, 16 SQ Labs 30 rise. Built in 2020, but it's my main rig. Just got some Canfield pedals to put on which will make it my 2022 new ride :)

Sometimes it goes 27.5+.