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NSMB - 2021 - Hardtail Thread

Oct. 14, 2021, 7:54 a.m.
Posts: 799
Joined: Jan. 31, 2005

Posted by: RAHrider

Posted by: craw

Turner only make Ti hardtails now? And not even manufactured in the USA. As someone who had a peak RFX in 2000 this development is a little sad.

:(

I couldn't figure out where they are made. That is so sad. I can't figure out why people want to pay that much for an overseas non-custom bike. The chromag ti as well as the knolly rigid bikes all fall into that category. 

Maybe one day there will be a bigger push to bring manufacturing here.

If they were made in the US you can bet that fact would be displayed prominently. It's not like there isn't the capacity for it domestically.

I bought my custom ti frames from one of the shops those brands outsource to. The difference? I got to design every single aspect of the geometry, cable routing, tubing diameter, wall thickness, etc. For $1000 USD - at that price you could order one as a tester then order a second one perfect with all the things you learned. But then again I'm not brand loyal. I'm loyal to fit, so that makes me automatically disloyal to the brands mentioned.

Oct. 14, 2021, 9:10 a.m.
Posts: 426
Joined: Jan. 2, 2018

Anyone on full rigid? 

For winter I'm thinking about replacing my 140mm 29er suspension fork with  a 480-490mm through axle rigid fork. 

Basically I'll run 29+/27.5+ mullet for trail, and then have another light/narrow 29er wheelset for pseudo-gravel bike excursions.

Oct. 14, 2021, 11:01 a.m.
Posts: 799
Joined: Jan. 31, 2005

Posted by: Kenny

Anyone on full rigid? 

For winter I'm thinking about replacing my 140mm 29er suspension fork with  a 480-490mm through axle rigid fork. 

Basically I'll run 29+/27.5+ mullet for trail, and then have another light/narrow 29er wheelset for pseudo-gravel bike excursions.

AMajor certainly has. My HT is designed around a full 160mm 29er fork so there aren't really any nice rigid carbon options at that length. This bike could definitely run a steeper head angle but the ESTA would be unreasonable. Anyone know of a ~550mm rigid carbon fork?

Oct. 14, 2021, 11:48 a.m.
Posts: 426
Joined: Jan. 2, 2018

I don't think so, around 490 seems to be the limit.  Longer is going to probably be a custom fabricated chromoly unit, at which point one might start to question the concept overall....

I am on a chameleon carbon with an angleset,140 fork and mullet, so my esta is crazy slack right now, probably 71 or so. Slack sta on hardtail seems a non issue for me but in my case this will bring it up and I have room to get steeper. 

My static head angle will steepen probably at least a degree, so to about 65.5 or 66, but I'm thinking that the dynamic head angle will still be slack enough for the speeds and gear levels I'll be subjecting it to as a rigid bike in winter shore conditions. 

Then with full 29 it'll be more like 67 which should be great for pseudo gravel. 

I'd agree I can't see this approach being feasible on a chromag or something with  a 75+ degree sta with a 150+mm fork.

Oct. 14, 2021, 12:55 p.m.
Posts: 678
Joined: Sept. 10, 2012

Posted by: Kenny

Anyone on full rigid? 

She mostly sees urban assault and gravel these days, but I have taken up and down a lot of gnarly trails bikepacking...running gears! My new winter bike [Pipedream Sirius] was designed for rigid fork use and I have considered it very briefly. I'm enjoying riding it at full fury with a 140mm fork too much at the moment to want to slow down and abuse myself with the rigid fork option. My arms are my weak spot for MTB riding these days so I am trying to be kind to them as much as I can.

Oct. 15, 2021, 1:10 a.m.
Posts: 1070
Joined: May 11, 2018

I used to ride rigid and have gone towards suspension the last few years but am now in the process of putting together a rigid mullet. If you were so inclined to make a mullet, you could take just about any 27.5 hardtail, put on a 500mm AC rigid 29er fork and it would sit at about the same height as a sagged 150-160mm travel 27.5 fork. When you try to put a rigid fork on a 29er, that is where it becomes difficult to find a rigid fork with a long enough AC. When you rigid mullet a 27.5 frame, the wheel adds 20mm, you can assume 30-40mm sag and there you are at around 500mm AC, which is not too hard to find.

I will post pictures and ride impressions once mine is built but I suspect it will be in 6 months or so :(

Oct. 15, 2021, 8:08 a.m.
Posts: 799
Joined: Jan. 31, 2005

Posted by: Kenny

I don't think so, around 490 seems to be the limit.  Longer is going to probably be a custom fabricated chromoly unit, at which point one might start to question the concept overall....

I am on a chameleon carbon with an angleset,140 fork and mullet, so my esta is crazy slack right now, probably 71 or so. Slack sta on hardtail seems a non issue for me but in my case this will bring it up and I have room to get steeper. 

My static head angle will steepen probably at least a degree, so to about 65.5 or 66, but I'm thinking that the dynamic head angle will still be slack enough for the speeds and gear levels I'll be subjecting it to as a rigid bike in winter shore conditions. 

Then with full 29 it'll be more like 67 which should be great for pseudo gravel. 

I'd agree I can't see this approach being feasible on a chromag or something with  a 75+ degree sta with a 150+mm fork.

That makes sense. I guess if I wanted my progressive HT to be a bikepacking rig or something I could get a matching ti fork made. Probably be easier to get another one built up with angles suitable to a 140mm fork with a 530mm A-C. Right? N+1!

Oct. 15, 2021, 9:26 a.m.
Posts: 678
Joined: Sept. 10, 2012

RSD has a 510mm rigid fork, but it's not in stock until 2022.

https://cad.rsdbikes.com/product/510mm-aluminum-fork/

Oct. 15, 2021, 9:40 p.m.
Posts: 1201
Joined: Nov. 21, 2002

Posted by: Vikb

Posted by: velocipedestrian

Ti? Why are there bosses on the seat tube? Wheelsize? Angles? Are Turner still around, or is this NOS?

https://turnerbikes.com/collections/nitrous

I like the idea of a T47 bb, but can someone educate me on flat mount rear disc mounts on a mtb?

Oct. 16, 2021, 2:25 a.m.
Posts: 143
Joined: May 1, 2018

Flat mount isn’t necessary, but it’s the new thing. If you can avoid it, you’ll not regret it at all. There are no real benefits except getting the caliper inside the triangle.

Oct. 17, 2021, 9:33 a.m.
Posts: 678
Joined: Sept. 10, 2012

Too good not to share. Best part is MH now has a version that's 6" longer for even for bike sex appeal. ;-)

Proof I am not lying. This new fender is too long even for my bizarre tastes!


 Last edited by: Vikb on Oct. 17, 2021, 9:36 a.m., edited 1 time in total.
Oct. 17, 2021, 11:33 a.m.
Posts: 40
Joined: Feb. 9, 2019

Posted by: Vikb

Proof I am not lying. This new fender is too long even for my bizarre tastes!

I'm more concerned by the lack of chain tension on that oddly complicated bicycle of yours ;-)

Oct. 17, 2021, 11:54 a.m.
Posts: 678
Joined: Sept. 10, 2012

Posted by: twk

I'm more concerned by the lack of chain tension on that oddly complicated bicycle of yours ;-)

It got sent back to the manufacturer. Every time you sat on it the whole rear end would flex/sag. Clearly it was broken! You don't need to be an enginerd to see that. ;-)

Oct. 18, 2021, 8:18 p.m.
Posts: 146
Joined: Feb. 24, 2017

Posted by: Vikb

The Sirius was designed for a 100-120mm fork. The MRP Ribbon Coil I had was convertible 140-160mm so I lowered it to 140mm and slapped it on. All Pipedreams have short head tubes so I threw on as many spacers under the stem as I could and then added 70mm rise bars as well. This gets the grips approximately level with the saddle on the unsagged bike.

Unsagged HTA is ~62 deg based on my phone and the unsagged STA is 75 deg.

Oct. 18, 2021, 8:25 p.m.
Posts: 146
Joined: Feb. 24, 2017

Oops, oh well.

Vik, how are you finding the 140 & 62° combo? I'm contemplating some editing towards a similar front end... 

Pipedream Moxie mullet is currently ~63.5°HA with the fork at 160mm. I'm pondering a - 2° works headset and lowering to 140. My guesstimate gives 62.5°HA assuming the travel drop steepens it by 1°.

The SA is too slack as it sits now (forgot to measure), and there's no room for a proper size 29 tyre, so headset and fork are the options for geo changes.

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