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NSMB - 2021 - Hardtail Thread

Feb. 23, 2021, 11:10 a.m.
Posts: 42
Joined: Aug. 13, 2017

Cam - Keep us posted on the ESD. I would be keen on one if the CS were a bit longer.


 Last edited by: fartymarty on Feb. 23, 2021, 11:10 a.m., edited 1 time in total.
Feb. 23, 2021, 1:25 p.m.
Posts: 1173
Joined: Nov. 21, 2002

I found this interesting for perspective, both rear axles are lined up. The Pole is definitely longer, but the extra length comes almost entirely in the rear end as the seat tube is shifted forward about the same as the head tube is in the picture. 

The NS is running a Pike at 160mm which has sagged to around 150mm and 27.5x2.8 in the rear, while the Diamond on the Pole is 140mm which I'll bump up to 150 or 160

March 1, 2021, 4:12 p.m.
Posts: 123
Joined: Aug. 29, 2010

Here's my poor mans Chromag! Almost everything on it is Chromag!

It's a 2019 Kona HonzoST XL that has been DIY paint stripped to raw.

I've picked up the Chromag BA30 wheelset since I last posted this bike. And, I'm running the Tannus inserts in 2.8 and 2.6 WTB Vigilantes. I have a Works -2 angleset with a Lyrik 160mm. The HA is somewhere around a high 64 to a low 65.

I'm interested in picking up the Honzo ESD frame if they ever become available. I've been trying to make my HonzoST into the ESD for the last several years so why not just get the ESD. As was said above I'd kinda like a longer CS but I'm willing to overlook that because it's RED!

I took this pic on my first ride of the year yesterday.

I've had BIKE on the brain since building my G1 and I couldn't not ride a bicycle anymore!

This post is doing double duty as well. I'm showing off my Mud Hugger fenders!

HonzoST

March 1, 2021, 10:07 p.m.
Posts: 817
Joined: May 11, 2018

Posted by: RideEverything

Here's my poor mans Chromag! Almost everything on it is Chromag!

It's a 2019 Kona HonzoST XL that has been DIY paint stripped to raw.

I've picked up the Chromag BA30 wheelset since I last posted this bike. And, I'm running the Tannus inserts in 2.8 and 2.6 WTB Vigilantes. I have a Works -2 angleset with a Lyrik 160mm. The HA is somewhere around a high 64 to a low 65.

I'm interested in picking up the Honzo ESD frame if they ever become available. I've been trying to make my HonzoST into the ESD for the last several years so why not just get the ESD. As was said above I'd kinda like a longer CS but I'm willing to overlook that because it's RED!

I took this pic on my first ride of the year yesterday.

I've had BIKE on the brain since building my G1 and I couldn't not ride a bicycle anymore!

This post is doing double duty as well. I'm showing off my Mud Hugger fenders!

HonzoST

I'm digging the red ano on raw. Nice work. 2 degree angleset is key on the old honzos.

March 5, 2021, 5:07 a.m.
Posts: 42
Joined: Aug. 13, 2017

Mudhugger rear fenders are awesome - got them on both bikes.

Nice Honzo, did you coat it in anything after you stripped the paint?

March 5, 2021, 6:42 a.m.
Posts: 84
Joined: Jan. 21, 2013

Agree about the Mud Hugger. I need a set.

Am I to be shamed for shortening the travel on my Z1 on a Doctahawk to 150mm? I did it as an experiment and it feels nice so far. If it's not working, all I need is a lower leg service and while doing that I can change back to 160 or 170mm. Haven't ridden anything chunky since the travel change, but so far for mellow riding it feels good. I think of it as a Primer with an angleset at this point.

March 5, 2021, 7:17 a.m.
Posts: 646
Joined: Jan. 31, 2005

Posted by: mrbrett

Agree about the Mud Hugger. I need a set.

Am I to be shamed for shortening the travel on my Z1 on a Doctahawk to 150mm? I did it as an experiment and it feels nice so far. If it's not working, all I need is a lower leg service and while doing that I can change back to 160 or 170mm. Haven't ridden anything chunky since the travel change, but so far for mellow riding it feels good. I think of it as a Primer with an angleset at this point.

That's a big drop in travel. Your BB will lower and STA even steeper - my guess is these two will get to the point of being unrideable. But there's only one way to know for sure!

March 5, 2021, 8:42 a.m.
Posts: 84
Joined: Jan. 21, 2013

The inside of my legs above my knees have confirmed your comment about STA! BB isn't that low as long as my pedals aren't dragging, right?!

Edit: Looking at the Honzo ESD review on the front page, without whipping out an protractor and measuring tape I think I am pretty close to those measurements - maybe I should give it a full lower-leg-service-interval at 150mm.


 Last edited by: mrbrett on March 5, 2021, 8:56 a.m., edited 1 time in total.
March 5, 2021, 12:13 p.m.
Posts: 123
Joined: Aug. 29, 2010

Posted by: fartymarty

Mudhugger rear fenders are awesome - got them on both bikes.

Nice Honzo, did you coat it in anything after you stripped the paint?

I used a rattle can clear coat that isn't all that durable. It's pretty much raw and developing a patina. It's more labour intensive because I always need to clean and dry the bike after every ride. I take a Scotch Brite pad to any areas of surface rust that are getting out of hand. So far it's been working for me.

March 5, 2021, 12:15 p.m.
Posts: 123
Joined: Aug. 29, 2010

Posted by: RAHrider
I'm digging the red ano on raw. Nice work. 2 degree angleset is key on the old honzos.

Thanks! I'm definitely a nerd for making my bikes matchy-matchy!

March 5, 2021, 10:44 p.m.
Posts: 817
Joined: May 11, 2018

Posted by: mrbrett

Agree about the Mud Hugger. I need a set.

Am I to be shamed for shortening the travel on my Z1 on a Doctahawk to 150mm? I did it as an experiment and it feels nice so far. If it's not working, all I need is a lower leg service and while doing that I can change back to 160 or 170mm. Haven't ridden anything chunky since the travel change, but so far for mellow riding it feels good. I think of it as a Primer with an angleset at this point.

I think it's closer to a primer with a really steep sta. The bb on the docta is 3mm higher than the primer. I bet it's only 5mm lower now. The HTA changes by 0.5 degree for every 10mm travel change, so your 62.5 is now 64. It's not  wrong for many.

Persoanlly, I find that by the time I am going fast enough to use all 160 of travel on my primer, things are getting pretty rowdy and I'm having difficulty having my legs keep up providing the suspension my fork is able to. This is why the docta never made sense to me. If I am hitting something hard enough to use all 180mm travel on a docta, I don't want to be on a hardtail anymore. 

Wondering why you want to go lower? But to answer your question, I don't think it is that bad a geo change 64/78. Not for me but also not crazy.

March 6, 2021, 4:41 a.m.
Posts: 42
Joined: Aug. 13, 2017

I'm running a very progressive 120mm my Krampus and would probably only run 140mm max (if it didn't mess up the STA). Any more fork travel and rear gets overwhelmed. If I were riding steeper trails all the time I would lift the bars - like Mr Majors Waltmag.


 Last edited by: fartymarty on March 6, 2021, 4:49 a.m., edited 1 time in total.
March 6, 2021, 1:35 p.m.
Posts: 84
Joined: Jan. 21, 2013

Posted by: RAHrider

Posted by: mrbrett

Agree about the Mud Hugger. I need a set.

Am I to be shamed for shortening the travel on my Z1 on a Doctahawk to 150mm? I did it as an experiment and it feels nice so far. If it's not working, all I need is a lower leg service and while doing that I can change back to 160 or 170mm. Haven't ridden anything chunky since the travel change, but so far for mellow riding it feels good. I think of it as a Primer with an angleset at this point.

I think it's closer to a primer with a really steep sta. The bb on the docta is 3mm higher than the primer. I bet it's only 5mm lower now. The HTA changes by 0.5 degree for every 10mm travel change, so your 62.5 is now 64. It's not wrong for many.

Persoanlly, I find that by the time I am going fast enough to use all 160 of travel on my primer, things are getting pretty rowdy and I'm having difficulty having my legs keep up providing the suspension my fork is able to. This is why the docta never made sense to me. If I am hitting something hard enough to use all 180mm travel on a docta, I don't want to be on a hardtail anymore.

Wondering why you want to go lower? But to answer your question, I don't think it is that bad a geo change 64/78. Not for me but also not crazy.

Was mostly just curious. I mean, I wouldn't buy a new air shaft to make it happen, but the fork I have makes it easy to change up travel.

I measured the BB. It's only a tiny bit lower than the geo table. Measured the HA off the stanchion. Maybe it's the resolution of my angle finder but it doesn't look too far off the posted geo (the 20mm = 1 degree thing seems to work better in the 70 degree HA range). Also havent compared current axle to crown to the "stock" Lyrik that a complete bike would have come with. SA is almost getting close to 77 I'd say.

All those dimensions are static, unloaded/unsagged too. That said, I almost never ride the bike standing beside it. Tough to say what it looks like in a body position you might find on a trail.

In terms of experiments it's a cheap one. 20mins and I'm back to the full travel version I was riding before. I'm not 100% sure how I got the idea but I think part at least was looking at the incredible weight of my Z1 coil and thinking laterally ... what if I had a Pike at 150mm that just rode higher in its travel? Wouldn't I preserve some geometry/shape of the bike that way?

The Docta appears to have batshit crazy-aggressive geometry on paper, but when you're riding one it really doesn't feel that way. Maybe it would have felt nuts 10 years ago, for sure not nowadays.

I can post an update in a few weeks if anyone's curious.

Edit: I don't also want to present an opinion that its wise or even possible to weight weenie a bike like this. Clear case of winter boredom?


 Last edited by: mrbrett on March 6, 2021, 1:37 p.m., edited 1 time in total.
March 6, 2021, 9:49 p.m.
Posts: 817
Joined: May 11, 2018

Posted by: mrbrett

Posted by: RAHrider

Posted by: mrbrett

Agree about the Mud Hugger. I need a set.

Am I to be shamed for shortening the travel on my Z1 on a Doctahawk to 150mm? I did it as an experiment and it feels nice so far. If it's not working, all I need is a lower leg service and while doing that I can change back to 160 or 170mm. Haven't ridden anything chunky since the travel change, but so far for mellow riding it feels good. I think of it as a Primer with an angleset at this point.

I think it's closer to a primer with a really steep sta. The bb on the docta is 3mm higher than the primer. I bet it's only 5mm lower now. The HTA changes by 0.5 degree for every 10mm travel change, so your 62.5 is now 64. It's not wrong for many.

Persoanlly, I find that by the time I am going fast enough to use all 160 of travel on my primer, things are getting pretty rowdy and I'm having difficulty having my legs keep up providing the suspension my fork is able to. This is why the docta never made sense to me. If I am hitting something hard enough to use all 180mm travel on a docta, I don't want to be on a hardtail anymore.

Wondering why you want to go lower? But to answer your question, I don't think it is that bad a geo change 64/78. Not for me but also not crazy.

Was mostly just curious. I mean, I wouldn't buy a new air shaft to make it happen, but the fork I have makes it easy to change up travel.

I measured the BB. It's only a tiny bit lower than the geo table. Measured the HA off the stanchion. Maybe it's the resolution of my angle finder but it doesn't look too far off the posted geo (the 20mm = 1 degree thing seems to work better in the 70 degree HA range). Also havent compared current axle to crown to the "stock" Lyrik that a complete bike would have come with. SA is almost getting close to 77 I'd say.

All those dimensions are static, unloaded/unsagged too. That said, I almost never ride the bike standing beside it. Tough to say what it looks like in a body position you might find on a trail.

In terms of experiments it's a cheap one. 20mins and I'm back to the full travel version I was riding before. I'm not 100% sure how I got the idea but I think part at least was looking at the incredible weight of my Z1 coil and thinking laterally ... what if I had a Pike at 150mm that just rode higher in its travel? Wouldn't I preserve some geometry/shape of the bike that way?

The Docta appears to have batshit crazy-aggressive geometry on paper, but when you're riding one it really doesn't feel that way. Maybe it would have felt nuts 10 years ago, for sure not nowadays.

I can post an update in a few weeks if anyone's curious.

Edit: I don't also want to present an opinion that its wise or even possible to weight weenie a bike like this. Clear case of winter boredom?

Sounds like an awesome experiment.  I continually mess with all my bikes (it drives my wife nuts). I would live to try a docta one day. I would be interested in hearing your thoughts on how your experiment works out.

March 7, 2021, 6:30 p.m.
Posts: 94
Joined: May 1, 2018

By the time you sag it the actual change is a bit less than 20mm, so it might be quite interesting to play around with.

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