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NSMB - 2020 - Hardtail Thread

Jan. 30, 2021, 6:41 a.m.
Posts: 2447
Joined: Nov. 23, 2002

Posted by: Vikb

I also find just riding a new setup a while allows for a lot of adaptation to changed steering response. I cut the bars on my HT with a short stem and long fork it felt super twitchy first ride. A month later I can't recall thinking about that "issue" for a long time now and I made no changes to the bike.

I always find it fascinating how well the human body can adapt to varying ergonomic factors.

Jan. 30, 2021, 8:09 a.m.
Posts: 1451
Joined: Sept. 10, 2012

Posted by: syncro

I always find it fascinating how well the human body can adapt to varying ergonomic factors.

For sure...especially stuff like steering that's all about timing/reflexes. 

Although to be fair while I got totally used to riding my long forked hardtail under normal conditions I can't ride it without hands...say on the bikepath to adjust my helmet strap or something like that. The slack front end and long fork are too floppy.  My less aggressive hardtails can be ridden no handed on a smooth surface no problem. Not that riding without my hands is super important on a mountain bike, but it was something I noticed with the new rig.

Jan. 30, 2021, 8:56 a.m.
Posts: 16
Joined: Sept. 22, 2019

Its been cool being able to adjust the stays. I had them in the shortest cuz thats what I always do, but setting them at 3/4 length took away some of the floppyness. 

Also interesting on the stem length. I was thinking about going shorter but maybe I should try both.

Feb. 8, 2021, 12:59 p.m.
Posts: 16
Joined: Sept. 22, 2019

I moved my dropouts all the way back to 445 ( as far as they would go) and all of the front end flop is gone.

Feb. 9, 2021, 8:05 a.m.
Posts: 2281
Joined: April 25, 2003

Posted by: Vikb

Posted by: syncro

I always find it fascinating how well the human body can adapt to varying ergonomic factors.

For sure...especially stuff like steering that's all about timing/reflexes. 

Although to be fair while I got totally used to riding my long forked hardtail under normal conditions I can't ride it without hands...say on the bikepath to adjust my helmet strap or something like that. The slack front end and long fork are too floppy.  My less aggressive hardtails can be ridden no handed on a smooth surface no problem. Not that riding without my hands is super important on a mountain bike, but it was something I noticed with the new rig.

Thank you for admitting this in public, I was starting to think I was the only one!

I can’t ride my WILDCAT no hands unless I’m really cooking along but I can completely change my clothes from the belt up while pedaling on my Cross-Check?!? 🤷🏼‍♂️

Feb. 9, 2021, 8:15 a.m.
Posts: 1451
Joined: Sept. 10, 2012

Posted by: tashi

I can’t ride my WILDCAT no hands unless I’m really cooking along but I can completely change my clothes from the belt up while pedaling on my Cross-Check?!? 🤷🏼‍♂️

Ya I can do complicated stuff no handed on my rigid Krampus. Maybe it's a Surly thing! Ha! I mean there are not many things I prefer about a steeper front end, but no handed riding is one of them.

Feb. 7, 2022, noon
Posts: 1
Joined: May 16, 2021

Long time lurker.

Finally out after 3 weeks with the VID.

Heres my Marino Cabala Mullet. Perfect for my local steeps.

Nothing but Positive comments about Marino....

https://www.instagram.com/p/CZsEM1SshrMt_V5urcreXsmkxM-zo2cPNWlkZk0/?utm_medium=copy_link

Feb. 7, 2022, 8:03 p.m.
Posts: 245
Joined: March 16, 2017

Posted by: Vikb

I cut the bars on my HT with a short stem and long fork it felt super twitchy first ride. 

Vik, had the conversation a few times with locals about bar width as they complain bar width. laugh how they get all defensive when I suggest they should trim their bars so they stop injuring their hands or in a few cases that trimming the bars down would help make their rides more enjoyable.  Blamed the trail and trees for their problems and would go on about if they where supposed to ride 760mm bars instead of 800mm bars the bike company would have done so.

Feb. 8, 2022, 7:50 a.m.
Posts: 1451
Joined: Sept. 10, 2012

Posted by: Endurimil

Vik, had the conversation a few times with locals about bar width as they complain bar width. laugh how they get all defensive when I suggest they should trim their bars so they stop injuring their hands or in a few cases that trimming the bars down would help make their rides more enjoyable. Blamed the trail and trees for their problems and would go on about if they where supposed to ride 760mm bars instead of 800mm bars the bike company would have done so.

It's interesting seeing pro enduro racer bike checks as they run all sorts of widths from 740-810mm under some pretty demanding conditions and a variety of terrain. There is a lot of "fashion" going on in the MTB world so what people see as cool is what they want to emulate. Full disclosure I tried 800mm bars and I had no reason to other than just wanting to see what all the hype was about. So I'm not immune to social pressures. At the end of the day I decided it was less cool to hurt my hands or crash my bike than it was to run "narrow" bars. I also ran into ergonomic issues with wide bars that made them less comfortable despite being a larger rider with wide shoulders/long arms.

I don't think you can convince people of stuff like this unless they are ready to hear it themselves. And the best way to get the message through is to just ride your bike and have fun. If someone in your crew is having issues with wide bars and you are not maybe they'll ask themselves if it makes sense to at least try taking 5mm off each side. Depending on the terrain it doesn't take much of a change to a bike setup to produce some noticeable benefits.


 Last edited by: Vikb on Feb. 8, 2022, 7:54 a.m., edited 1 time in total.
Feb. 8, 2022, 8:40 a.m.
Posts: 341
Joined: Feb. 16, 2013

Posted by: Jasetheblade

Long time lurker.

Finally out after 3 weeks with the VID.

Heres my Marino Cabala Mullet. Perfect for my local steeps.

Nothing but Positive comments about Marino....

https://www.instagram.com/p/CZsEM1SshrMt_V5urcreXsmkxM-zo2cPNWlkZk0/?utm_medium=copy_link

Your IG is private, just FYI, incase you wanted people to check out yer stuff.

Feb. 8, 2022, 9:35 a.m.
Posts: 940
Joined: Jan. 31, 2005

Posted by: Vikb

Posted by: Endurimil

Vik, had the conversation a few times with locals about bar width as they complain bar width. laugh how they get all defensive when I suggest they should trim their bars so they stop injuring their hands or in a few cases that trimming the bars down would help make their rides more enjoyable. Blamed the trail and trees for their problems and would go on about if they where supposed to ride 760mm bars instead of 800mm bars the bike company would have done so.

It's interesting seeing pro enduro racer bike checks as they run all sorts of widths from 740-810mm under some pretty demanding conditions and a variety of terrain. There is a lot of "fashion" going on in the MTB world so what people see as cool is what they want to emulate. Full disclosure I tried 800mm bars and I had no reason to other than just wanting to see what all the hype was about. So I'm not immune to social pressures. At the end of the day I decided it was less cool to hurt my hands or crash my bike than it was to run "narrow" bars. I also ran into ergonomic issues with wide bars that made them less comfortable despite being a larger rider with wide shoulders/long arms.

I don't think you can convince people of stuff like this unless they are ready to hear it themselves. And the best way to get the message through is to just ride your bike and have fun. If someone in your crew is having issues with wide bars and you are not maybe they'll ask themselves if it makes sense to at least try taking 5mm off each side. Depending on the terrain it doesn't take much of a change to a bike setup to produce some noticeable benefits.

This 100%. Most riders now are joiners and they tend to buy into the whole "that one trendy solution is the right solution for everyone" thing that mountain bikers love so much. I'm rooted in a time way before that when people were more proudly experimental about the weird stuff they tried. But now you see someone who's 5'2" on a dual 29" bike with 820mm bars that are way wider than their shoulders and it's easier to not say anything. Enjoy riding a bike you can't maneuver. Everyone has different needs but you have to listen to your body and be willing to make incremental experiments.

I'm bigger and wider than most. I used to have the big SixC bar. Then I switched to a longer 60mm stem (god forbid!) and bar with 12' sweep at 780mm and guess what? It's great. I don't miss that width at all. Plus the SixC is brutally stiff and my new bar is quite comfortable.

Feb. 8, 2022, 10:20 a.m.
Posts: 1451
Joined: Sept. 10, 2012

Posted by: craw

This 100%. Most riders now are joiners and they tend to buy into the whole "that one trendy solution is the right solution for everyone" thing that mountain bikers love so much. I'm rooted in a time way before that when people were more proudly experimental about the weird stuff they tried. But now you see someone who's 5'2" on a dual 29" bike with 820mm bars that are way wider than their shoulders and it's easier to not say anything. Enjoy riding a bike you can't maneuver. Everyone has different needs but you have to listen to your body and be willing to make incremental experiments.

I'm bigger and wider than most. I used to have the big SixC bar. Then I switched to a longer 60mm stem (god forbid!) and bar with 12' sweep at 780mm and guess what? It's great. I don't miss that width at all. Plus the SixC is brutally stiff and my new bar is quite comfortable.

Dealing with my GF is always educational when it comes to bikes. She doesn't know or care about 90% of the stuff I think is super important. I could totally change her suspension settings and she might comment on it casually after a couple weeks. Maybe. The most egregious incident was when one of her GFs mentioned to me that my GF didn't like her fancy new [6 month old] bike. So I asked her about it and she only then mentions to me that she is going OTB a couple times a ride because the back end bucks her forward. I let out a long sigh and turn the rebound knob on her shock. Problem solved. We spend everyday together when we are not working and it never occurred to her that she should mention that tidbit of info...despite months of OTBs. She's been an ICU nurse in the past so dealing with complex situations/machinery is not a problem for her, but some how she can't apply that to bikes. And then of course you have people that are legit operating way further down the IQ distribution curve trying to make sense of a modern MTB. It's no wonder not many people are getting the most from their bikes.

The fact that you are willing and able to make changes is huge. You can't know what you aren't willing to try. OTOH going from a poor bar/cockpit setup to one that suits you is a night and day difference. Once you have tasted that success. It's really really really hard to not change stuff that doesn't make you happy. That's the blessing and the curse of being a bike geek.

It's kind of hilarious that when you mention a 60mm stem now it sounds like you are riding a road bike. In the days of 90-120mm stems running a 60mm stem would be a weirdo stubby setup for when you bought the wrong size frame.

It's great that you found a setup that works for you. Those SixC bars were awful for being overly stiff.


 Last edited by: Vikb on Feb. 8, 2022, 10:22 a.m., edited 1 time in total.
Feb. 8, 2022, 2:36 p.m.
Posts: 940
Joined: Jan. 31, 2005

Posted by: Vikb

Posted by: craw

This 100%. Most riders now are joiners and they tend to buy into the whole "that one trendy solution is the right solution for everyone" thing that mountain bikers love so much. I'm rooted in a time way before that when people were more proudly experimental about the weird stuff they tried. But now you see someone who's 5'2" on a dual 29" bike with 820mm bars that are way wider than their shoulders and it's easier to not say anything. Enjoy riding a bike you can't maneuver. Everyone has different needs but you have to listen to your body and be willing to make incremental experiments.

I'm bigger and wider than most. I used to have the big SixC bar. Then I switched to a longer 60mm stem (god forbid!) and bar with 12' sweep at 780mm and guess what? It's great. I don't miss that width at all. Plus the SixC is brutally stiff and my new bar is quite comfortable.

Dealing with my GF is always educational when it comes to bikes. She doesn't know or care about 90% of the stuff I think is super important. I could totally change her suspension settings and she might comment on it casually after a couple weeks. Maybe. The most egregious incident was when one of her GFs mentioned to me that my GF didn't like her fancy new [6 month old] bike. So I asked her about it and she only then mentions to me that she is going OTB a couple times a ride because the back end bucks her forward. I let out a long sigh and turn the rebound knob on her shock. Problem solved. We spend everyday together when we are not working and it never occurred to her that she should mention that tidbit of info...despite months of OTBs. She's been an ICU nurse in the past so dealing with complex situations/machinery is not a problem for her, but some how she can't apply that to bikes. And then of course you have people that are legit operating way further down the IQ distribution curve trying to make sense of a modern MTB. It's no wonder not many people are getting the most from their bikes.

The fact that you are willing and able to make changes is huge. You can't know what you aren't willing to try. OTOH going from a poor bar/cockpit setup to one that suits you is a night and day difference. Once you have tasted that success. It's really really really hard to not change stuff that doesn't make you happy. That's the blessing and the curse of being a bike geek.

It's kind of hilarious that when you mention a 60mm stem now it sounds like you are riding a road bike. In the days of 90-120mm stems running a 60mm stem would be a weirdo stubby setup for when you bought the wrong size frame.

It's great that you found a setup that works for you. Those SixC bars were awful for being overly stiff.

Willingness to experiment is a big deal. Knowing that things could be a lot better is also important- someone with less experience might think what's going on for them is totally normal. It's easy to forget that many of us have been doing this a long time and have a wealth of experience to draw on when we get on a new bike. We know what we like or when things are wrong and have the vocabulary to express how we would prefer things to be.

Feb. 8, 2022, 3:30 p.m.
Posts: 1451
Joined: Sept. 10, 2012

Posted by: craw

Willingness to experiment is a big deal. Knowing that things could be a lot better is also important- someone with less experience might think what's going on for them is totally normal. It's easy to forget that many of us have been doing this a long time and have a wealth of experience to draw on when we get on a new bike. We know what we like or when things are wrong and have the vocabulary to express how we would prefer things to be.

100% I spent a decade riding MTBs where I would have told you being in agony after 3-4 days of riding in a row was normal.

Feb. 8, 2022, 10:01 p.m.
Posts: 1281
Joined: May 11, 2018

Posted by: Vikb

Dealing with my GF is always educational when it comes to bikes. She doesn't know or care about 90% of the stuff I think is super important. I could totally change her suspension settings and she might comment on it casually after a couple weeks. Maybe. The most egregious incident was when one of her GFs mentioned to me that my GF didn't like her fancy new [6 month old] bike. So I asked her about it and she only then mentions to me that she is going OTB a couple times a ride because the back end bucks her forward. I let out a long sigh and turn the rebound knob on her shock. Problem solved. We spend everyday together when we are not working and it never occurred to her that she should mention that tidbit of info...despite months of OTBs. She's been an ICU nurse in the past so dealing with complex situations/machinery is not a problem for her, but some how she can't apply that to bikes. And then of course you have people that are legit operating way further down the IQ distribution curve trying to make sense of a modern MTB. It's no wonder not many people are getting the most from their bikes.

I think our partners need to ride together. I made my LBS include a two week loan of their shock wiz for each new bike I purchased for her there. Trying to get her to tell me if the suspension is better or worse is kind of like me trying to tell my wife which fabric colour is better for our new chairs - somewhere between hopeless and useless.

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