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NSMB - 2019 - Hardtail Thread

Feb. 8, 2019, 8:20 a.m.
Posts: 404
Joined: Jan. 31, 2005

Posted by: Kenny

Posted by: nouseforaname

Posted by: xy9ine

damn, that's aggressive. so 79* ish sagged STA? curious how it corners with such a large front center length bias.

What's up with rear centre length not growing with front centre? I was excited by this for a long time from various insta posts. Now I see that the rear centre is 415.

#armchairengineer

It does. The three sizes go 415, 425, 435.

As far as the short head tube and stack, it does have a 180mm 29er fork... Not really sure how much more stack you need... ?

To the earlier post: back in the day I rode a 180mm fork on a hardtail and it was awesome. But that was nearly 20 years ago mind you. I'd for sure try it again now. But maybe with a modern fork 160-170 would be fine.

r.e. stack. For someone 6'7"? Still more stack needed. But really that person is the outlier. That little head tube is what makes sense for most people, on a 29er, with a 180mm fork.


 Last edited by: craw on Feb. 8, 2019, 8:20 a.m., edited 1 time in total.
Feb. 8, 2019, 8:44 a.m.
Posts: 1277
Joined: Feb. 17, 2009

Posted by: craw

Posted by: Kenny

Posted by: nouseforaname

Posted by: xy9ine

damn, that's aggressive. so 79* ish sagged STA? curious how it corners with such a large front center length bias.

What's up with rear centre length not growing with front centre? I was excited by this for a long time from various insta posts. Now I see that the rear centre is 415.

#armchairengineer

It does. The three sizes go 415, 425, 435.

As far as the short head tube and stack, it does have a 180mm 29er fork... Not really sure how much more stack you need... ?

To the earlier post: back in the day I rode a 180mm fork on a hardtail and it was awesome. But that was nearly 20 years ago mind you. I'd for sure try it again now. But maybe with a modern fork 160-170 would be fine.

r.e. stack. For someone 6'7"? Still more stack needed. But really that person is the outlier. That little head tube is what makes sense for most people, on a 29er, with a 180mm fork.

Since they are made locally, and Chromag encourages customers to call them for support, maybe, if a 6'7 person wanted one, they could call Chromag and ask if it's possible to custom build a copy with a longer headtube. Might cost you a few bucks more but it will sparkbring you joy and according to Marie Kondo, that's the shit right now.


 Last edited by: rnayel on Feb. 8, 2019, 8:47 a.m., edited 1 time in total.
Feb. 8, 2019, 2:38 p.m.
Posts: 404
Joined: Jan. 31, 2005

Posted by: rnayel

Posted by: craw

Posted by: Kenny

Posted by: nouseforaname

Posted by: xy9ine

damn, that's aggressive. so 79* ish sagged STA? curious how it corners with such a large front center length bias.

What's up with rear centre length not growing with front centre? I was excited by this for a long time from various insta posts. Now I see that the rear centre is 415.

#armchairengineer

It does. The three sizes go 415, 425, 435.

As far as the short head tube and stack, it does have a 180mm 29er fork... Not really sure how much more stack you need... ?

To the earlier post: back in the day I rode a 180mm fork on a hardtail and it was awesome. But that was nearly 20 years ago mind you. I'd for sure try it again now. But maybe with a modern fork 160-170 would be fine.

r.e. stack. For someone 6'7"? Still more stack needed. But really that person is the outlier. That little head tube is what makes sense for most people, on a 29er, with a 180mm fork.

Since they are made locally, and Chromag encourages customers to call them for support, maybe, if a 6'7 person wanted one, they could call Chromag and ask if it's possible to custom build a copy with a longer headtube. Might cost you a few bucks more but it will sparkbring you joy and according to Marie Kondo, that's the shit right now.

Not to harp on this, but they say the stock XL fits someone up to 6'7" http://www.chromagbikes.com/bikes/doctahawk#geometry - my point is that this is a little nuts unless you love spacers. The RBA also had a 105 head tube and a 160mm fork so the fork isn't it. People's insane Chrolove wouldn't let a 4cm stack of spacers stop them and nor should it!


 Last edited by: craw on Feb. 8, 2019, 2:40 p.m., edited 1 time in total.
Feb. 8, 2019, 3:08 p.m.
Posts: 146
Joined: Jan. 2, 2018

I think theres a typo on the stack height, as it says 636mm for all three sizes, even though the l and xl have a 105mm head tube and the m/l has a 95mm head tube. 

Assuming that's a copy paste and the true stack is 646mm, that's the same as an XXL Hightower LT, which santa cruz say is for riders from 6'3" to 6'6". 

Fair enough - people at the extreme end of the spectrum might get a better fit with higher rise bars and more spacers, but imo a Hightower LT is about as common a standard as any to gauge against so I think you're hard pressed to suggest chromag is out to lunch versus what's typical. 

I think it's wierd people want longer stays. If you want a super stable plow bike, get a full suspension bike. Imo the short stays suit the riding style and use case for the bikes. On that same note I don't see the use for the doctahawk personally, because I'm not trying to replace my full suspension bike. Don't get me wrong I think it's rad they are building it, but it doesn't fit my use case, personally.

Feb. 8, 2019, 3:21 p.m.
Posts: 404
Joined: Jan. 31, 2005

I'd be curious to see just how far you could take a hardtail with these numbers. People were saying they're way more capable than you'd expect and that was on the previous norm. This is a step longer, slacker HTA and steeper STA. I bet it'll be amazing. Any idea why they offset the seat tube forward?


 Last edited by: craw on Feb. 8, 2019, 3:26 p.m., edited 1 time in total.
Feb. 8, 2019, 3:29 p.m.
Posts: 146
Joined: Jan. 2, 2018

I have the latest rootdown, 64 degree ha, 76 degree seat angle, 478 reach on a large, 2.6" 29er front tire and 2.4" rear. 

My "other bike" is a 2017 bronson, not a crazy bike but its a 150mm rear and 160 front. The rootdown is for sure more capable. My Bronson is pointless now. 

So yeah I'm sure the doctahawk is crazy. I think the rootdown paired with a "park bike" - Scott ransom, firebird 29, or similar is a good pair. With a doctahawk it would almost make sense for your fs rig to be a 100mm xc bike just so you don't have a bunch of overlap! Like a doctahawk and a trance 29 or something.

Feb. 8, 2019, 4:11 p.m.
Posts: 404
Joined: Jan. 31, 2005

Posted by: Kenny

I have the latest rootdown, 64 degree ha, 76 degree seat angle, 478 reach on a large, 2.6" 29er front tire and 2.4" rear. 

My "other bike" is a 2017 bronson, not a crazy bike but its a 150mm rear and 160 front. The rootdown is for sure more capable. My Bronson is pointless now. 

So yeah I'm sure the doctahawk is crazy. I think the rootdown paired with a "park bike" - Scott ransom, firebird 29, or similar is a good pair. With a doctahawk it would almost make sense for your fs rig to be a 100mm xc bike just so you don't have a bunch of overlap! Like a doctahawk and a trance 29 or something.

Are there times when the Bronson is better, like, straight line over chunder? Or has the new geo made the hardtail superior through that stuff too?

Feb. 8, 2019, 6:08 p.m.
Posts: 974
Joined: Nov. 23, 2002

Posted by: Kenny

I have the latest rootdown, 64 degree ha, 76 degree seat angle, 478 reach on a large, 2.6" 29er front tire and 2.4" rear. 

My "other bike" is a 2017 bronson, not a crazy bike but its a 150mm rear and 160 front. The rootdown is for sure more capable. My Bronson is pointless now. 

So yeah I'm sure the doctahawk is crazy. I think the rootdown paired with a "park bike" - Scott ransom, firebird 29, or similar is a good pair. With a doctahawk it would almost make sense for your fs rig to be a 100mm xc bike just so you don't have a bunch of overlap! Like a doctahawk and a trance 29 or something.

damnit, why's you have to go and say something like that.

Feb. 8, 2019, 11:15 p.m.
Posts: 213
Joined: May 11, 2018

This Hardtail thread has gotten really interesting. I have had four rides on my new rig. I think it is my new favourite bike. It is stiff climbing and the front wheel stays down nicely. The 27.5 wheel size keeps the wheelbase tight and the slack headtube at 64 deg helps it carve out corners nicely. Between the stiff frame and thompson stem, the front end feels tight and responsive. I also picked up two titanium king cages to complete the package. Minions 2.5 front and 2.4 rear with lots of room to spare.

Feb. 9, 2019, 10:17 a.m.
Posts: 404
Joined: Jan. 31, 2005

Is your seat tube particularly big or are you running a shim for your seatpost? Or maybe you're just happy to see us.

Feb. 9, 2019, 2:41 p.m.
Posts: 13
Joined: Jan. 22, 2019

Posted by: Kenny

I think it's wierd people want longer stays. If you want a super stable plow bike, get a full suspension bike. Imo the short stays suit the riding style and use case for the bikes. On that same note I don't see the use for the doctahawk personally, because I'm not trying to replace my full suspension bike. Don't get me wrong I think it's rad they are building it, but it doesn't fit my use case, personally.

The Doctahawk is definitely at the extreme end of the spectrum and not really for me either. I can understand taller people who love hardtails being interested in this for the reach though, but 180mm fork on a HT? Surely if your trails can justify that much travel up front you would be better served with a full sus.

Also agree with the long chainstays comment, HT's are about manuals and goofing around.


 Last edited by: Tremeer023 on Feb. 9, 2019, 2:43 p.m., edited 2 times in total.
Feb. 9, 2019, 3:44 p.m.
Posts: 153
Joined: March 6, 2017

I'm not a hardtail rider and never will be but I do have a question. With 180mm travel up front and considering the whole bike pivots around the rear axle, won't it feel super unstable when you're deep in the travel? A dually at least somewhat maintains its geo to a degree when both ends compress.

Feb. 9, 2019, 3:54 p.m.
Posts: 38
Joined: Nov. 14, 2017

If the fork bottoms out the HTA is 71°.  Nothing I'm gonna do on purpose will bottom a 180mm fork.  I think the Doctahawk is going too far, butI'll reserve judgement until I can try one, and this is extremely unlikely.

Feb. 9, 2019, 4:57 p.m.
Posts: 122
Joined: May 13, 2014

180mm on a hardtail.....last time I saw that was a Banshee Endorphin with a Monster T on the front, and as they said then "only on the Shore".   I will stick with my Surface Ti, although I would like to see the HT angle slackened by 1 degree, but I hear on the second gen the seat tube is 20mm shorter and the HT is .5 of a degree slacker.   Getting there....

Feb. 9, 2019, 7:01 p.m.
Posts: 213
Joined: May 11, 2018

Posted by: craw

Is your seat tube particularly big or are you running a shim for your seatpost? Or maybe you're just happy to see us.

It's a 31.8 seatpost. No shim. I think it's just something about the lighting - optical illusion.

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