NSMB - 2017 - Hardtail Thread

<span style="line-height: 18.4px;">Here's my contribution, medium green Rootdown BA. Put together basically 15-20 minutes at a time while the little kiddies were either sleeping or occupied. I was able to move most of the stuff over from my v2 Rootdown--needed new headset and bb. Upgraded wheels while I was at it since I knew 27.5+ is what I want to stick with now. 150mm 29 Auron RC2 should give a slightly steeper than spec 65* HA</span>

I'm especially proud of the wheels which were a real pain in the ass, Roval Traverse Fatties 650b 142+ with no drive mechanism (that damned + actually worked out well with boost) which I had originally thought were based around 3 pawl drive, ended up being star ratchets. Got them all sorted with 3mm boost spacers on either side so no wheel re-dish needed. But I hope I never flat on the trails because those damned spacers will surely get lost, they were rather fidgety to get in. I could also run a normal 142 DT drive side end cap and skip the 3mm boost spacer on that side; I'd end up with boost 147 instead of 148, which isn't a huge deal IMO. Spaced the brake adapter out about 2mm from the frame.

Thinking of moving to the 10sp Sunrace 11-42 cassette from the current 11-40, and dropping down to a 26 or 28t granny mount NW ring from the current 30t which is a bit tall for some of my climbs. <span style="line-height: 18.4px;">If I ever move to 11sp 11-46, the 28t will give me all I need mathematically.</span> <span style="line-height: 1.15;">Not sure I have the clearance at the chainstay for a 26/28 granny though, even with the ~2mm offset RF or Absoluteblack offer.</span>

Michel, your Surface is amazing. Proper photographs for such a nice bike also. Wow!

I've been thinking a lot about a Surface recently. You're not helping... ;) :lol:

The Rootdown is very nice as well! 

I like my old hardtail, but these modern frames are something else!

Posted by: FlipSide

I've been thinking a lot about a Surface recently.

That's how it started with me too, revelation in the middle of the night that YOLO.

Interested to hear from Rootdown BA owners.

What do you think is the ideal fork travel for the frame as an all-rounder? And how do you like the steep STA? With a 140 mm fork, is the STA too steep? 160 just seems like too much given my goals for the bike, and I'd be running it in 29er, so dropping the BB a bit is also desireable (my current hardtail has 305 mm BB height and I love it).

I am currently running a Kona Taro (similar geo to Honzo) and contemplating a new frame. I like my 120 mm fork on the hardtail, and I'm just wondering whether running such a long-travel fork makes the bike feel less balanced.

I'm also looking at frames built around 120-140 mm forks, which is more in line with what I currently have (front-runners are NS Eccentric Cromo 29 and Ragley Bigwig). I have a full-suspension AM bike, so I'm looking for my hardtail to be more on the efficient, snappy and responsive side rather than trying to be a plow bike.

I rode a non-BA Rootdown so I'll try to keep my input relevant to this type of hardtail in general.

I ran it with a 110-140mm Revelation and then a 140mm Fox 34.

110 felt pretty stupid, no matter how smooth or steep the climb was. BB just felt like it was tucked down and back of where it should be to pedal well. Felt like I actually climbed slower with the fork lower.

140mm felt good with both forks. Better with the Fox as it's stiffer. I live in Victoria so do most of my riding on the island and the bike did very well here. When I took my road trip through BC some of the extended, rougher downhills had me wanting more travel, but in the form of a full suspension bike, not a longer fork. 140 is already a for amount of travel for a bike with nothing to help out the rear wheel, you're slamming things pretty good at that point, and using a lot of "body suspension" to keep the rear moving along with the front.

I wouldn't be surprised if the new geometry takes longer forks better - the friend I bought the 34 from was moving to a Rootdown BA from a regular one and is a "super fussy bike shop owner gear nerd who shreds" and swapping in a 150mm 36 as he felt it was a better match to the new geo. Still sounds like a lot of travel to me but really, 10mm isn't a big deal sooooo....

Posted by: tashi

I rode a non-BA Rootdown so I'll try to keep my input relevant to this type of hardtail in general.

I ran it with a 110-140mm Revelation and then a 140mm Fox 34.

110 felt pretty stupid, no matter how smooth or steep the climb was. BB just felt like it was tucked down and back of where it should be to pedal well. Felt like I actually climbed slower with the fork lower.

140mm felt good with both forks. Better with the Fox as it's stiffer. I live in Victoria so do most of my riding on the island and the bike did very well here. When I took my road trip through BC some of the extended, rougher downhills had me wanting more travel, but in the form of a full suspension bike, not a longer fork. 140 is already a for amount of travel for a bike with nothing to help out the rear wheel, you're slamming things pretty good at that point, and using a lot of "body suspension" to keep the rear moving along with the front.

I wouldn't be surprised if the new geometry takes longer forks better - the friend I bought the 34 from was moving to a Rootdown BA from a regular one and is a "super fussy bike shop owner gear nerd who shreds" and swapping in a 150mm 36 as he felt it was a better match to the new geo. Still sounds like a lot of travel to me but really, 10mm isn't a big deal sooooo....

Thanks for the thoughts. I saw your Rootdown back a few posts and it looks great.

I rode a friend's non-BA Rootdown with 140 mm Fox 34 back to back with my Kona and I felt like the Rootdown was too tall for my liking. I felt like I was sitting above the bike as opposed to inside it like on my Kona. The BA looks better in this respect, but static BB height is still higher than my current bike by about 15 mm with a 160 mm fork.

I guess it's all about what you're used to.

While the geometry between the Rootdown and the BA is fairly different, I guess another thing to consider is the lower headset cup (EC on the old frame, ZS on the new one). You can run an extra 10 mm of travel or so and get a similar stack height with the ZS.

Additional info: I've always run slammed flat bars on my niners.  The Rootdown was slightly higher than the Tallboy it replaced (same fork).  The way my Rootdown was sized I was definitely "on" it - I could be riding either the M or the M/L and went with the M as it was similar top tube length to my Tallboy and available at the time.  I'm 5'10", and painfully average in most dimensions aside from shoulder width.

My non-BA rootdown I sized up to M/L at an average 5'8" to get a good reach. It felt pretty good, but a touch short in the standover area. I ran it with a 120mm fork as well as a 140-110mm like Tashi, definitely better everywhere with 140mm. I did feel a bit tall on it with 29" wheels, on 27.5+ felt a bit lower which did help. I had a Honzo ST prior to the Rootdown and the Rootdown wasn't as playful as the Honzo, but climbed better and a touch lighter.

My BA now, I run a M and fits nice. Running 27.5+, 150mm fork, so my head angle is probably a bit steeper than the 65 spec. Tagged the pedals a few times on techy climbs, tore up a crank boot real good. To be honest I don't think I noticed the steep seat angle very much, my seat seemed to be in the right place which is what really matters anyways. Definitely noticed the longer front end and slacker HA on the steeper tech climbs. Climbing traction was amazing with the 27.5+ tires. Although rear end is as short as the Honzo when I had it, it felt quite balanced overall whereas the Honzo always seemed to want to tip backwards and forced me to bend a ton at the waist to weight the front end. Pointed down, the BA was an absolute monster for my level of riding. I still need to get reaquainted to slack HA and big wheels after spending the winter on a 68 26" with 5" travel fork. I think I would still love if Chromag did a 'Surface BA', I think I would prefer a slightly steeper HA and threaded BB shell personally -- first world problems 

Hope that helps

Thanks, that helps a lot. I think a 150 fork would be the ticket for me on a BA. I'm also glad to hear the seat angle doesn't feel bizarrely steep. On paper, it's quite upright, especially for a hardtail.

Have the Pike ready to go with one small adjustment needed. Stiffer U Turn spring.

Finally finished! 2015 STYLUS M/L w/all my parts from my  2005 BULLIT  except h/set & fork. I went from 42 lbs to 37.2 lbs according to my highly accurate made in the far east digital scale.

I am now on the Rootdown BA program. Thanks all for the advice.

My Pike is currently at 140, but I have a 150 air spring on order (backordered until early June). 140 actually feels pretty good. You can see the whole whack of spacers I'm running under the stem, so there is definitely room to increase travel without bars being too high.

Dropper post is coming as well. My KS Lev is currently being warrantied.

Compared to my Kona Taro, it feels slightly more stable though a bit less responsive as a result. The Kona liked to pick a line and pop around a bit more. The Rootdown trends more toward monster trucking. Also, I can't say I feel much difference in vibration damping going from alloy to steel. The Chromag seems to be more stiff than compliant.

2012 Kona Honzo:

I got this in 2013, and it's been the most fun bike I've ever owned. I feel like this is the bike that took me back to my roots.

I had to strip it for a Smuggler build, but it's slowly being built back up. All it needs is a set of brakes and I should be back to the hardtail party.

I love seeing all the Chromags! I've been on a rootdown BA since last July and it's been great. The majority of my riding has been in Las Vegas and southern Utah. I'm running 150mm DVO diamond up front and have thought about trying 160, but with 150 it's been able to handle everything I've thrown at it so no real rush to switch. I don't think I'd want to go below 150 though. I'll try to get some pictures up later today.