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NSMB - 2014 – Hardtail Thread

April 29, 2014, 5:58 p.m.
Posts: 809
Joined: Dec. 22, 2002

Calling out a bike for not having ISCG tabs? Are we still doing this? I though N-W rings killed this conversation for all but the most paranoid zealots (ie same guys who buy downtube protectors).

NSMBA member.

April 29, 2014, 9:13 p.m.
Posts: 1045
Joined: May 30, 2004

would you not buy a ht you liked everything else about because it didn't have 142x12?

For me, yes, I'd pass up on a bike if it wasn't 12X142 unless it was entirely something special. I never want to see another QR on a mountain bike again. 12x142 is just so easy to deal with.

I have a couple of wheels that have slightly different rotor spacing. I haven't gotten around to shimming one of the rotors out because a quick loosening and tightening of the caliper screws gets me there in 10 seconds. I will shim one though.

April 29, 2014, 10:36 p.m.
Posts: 0
Joined: Sept. 20, 2006

Internal cable routing for all cables, including rear brake. Looks clean, adds some detail. I've always found that I'm obsessive when building my own bike, and dealing with internal cables doesn't bother me at all. If it makes the bike look cleaner, all the better.

Also would want 142mm rear end. Lateral stiffness is nice on any bike, and why bother with 135x12 when 142x12 exists.

April 30, 2014, 5:51 a.m.
Posts: 0
Joined: April 26, 2014

142x12:
on a Fs, I agree completely, I had been using bolt up hubs on my hustler, and when I put some qr wheels back in there, there was a lot of flex.

But on a Ht, it's not an issue, at least, I've never had a wheel slip in vertical dropouts.

142, the 2 souls ones would look clean, tho the brazing is a bitch.
price is about 80-90eu more for the frame.

I'd prefer the adjustable ones, it adds a new dimension to a frame, you can SS it or rohloff it, or change between 135 and 142. weight goes up a bit, price goes up by 60eu or by 90eu if you want them in stainless,
so it's not too bad.
for a bike that won't ever be used in those ways there's no point though, if someone wants a rohloff bike the cable routing is different anyway.
if someone wants a ss, they're not going to want the cable guides.

I'm not trying to hit a pricepoint, there's no point on a custom bike, you can add options and have a custom price, but it's about the best frame I can build, price is always a factor that you have to consider however.

price brings me onto internal cables, internal cable routing in steel is tricky, you have to braze in a brass tube, then file it smooth, it adds about 50e per cable, per tube, so consider 3 tubes in the tt (dt internal is a worse idea)

plus you might as well go all the way, internal dropper, internal in non drive seatstay, internal in chainstay. that's 300eu more. don't know what that is in canadian, but it's an ok wheelset if you build your own, or find a good deal.
The formula Rep was here yesterday, we were talking about this, he says racers prefer external, changing parts is much quicker.
Non racers prefer internal, for the reasons stated here; cleaner to the eye, easier to clean,etc.

Another negative,

It adds weight, I'm not a Weightweenie by any stretch, but you're looking at 250-300grams more depending on framesize.

back to lateral stiffness.

Lateral stiffness is a question of tubing choice on a ht, more so than a fs, where you need to keep various suspension bits aligned.


Ragley uses 16mm chainstays, I have another solution, I used it on the 29er, where I profile 19mm chainstays to 16mm, so that laterally they're 22mm. bit more give vertically, bit stiffer side to side. (static load tests give me (aprox) 12% difference either way, not much, but it all adds up)

changing wheelsets.
those syntace shims are the best I've found, much easier than the individual bolt shims.

http://revanchebikeco.wordpress.com/

April 30, 2014, 5:55 a.m.
Posts: 0
Joined: April 26, 2014

Calling out a bike for not having ISCG tabs? Are we still doing this? I though N-W rings killed this conversation for all but the most paranoid zealots (ie same guys who buy downtube protectors).

Shelter tape is pretty good stuff!

but agree, having said that, I don't do production bikes, they're all made to measure. so zealots need fear not.

http://revanchebikeco.wordpress.com/

April 30, 2014, 5:59 a.m.
Posts: 0
Joined: April 26, 2014

For me, yes, I'd pass up on a bike if it wasn't 12X142 unless it was entirely something special. I never want to see another QR on a mountain bike again. 12x142 is just so easy to deal with.

I have a couple of wheels that have slightly different rotor spacing. I haven't gotten around to shimming one of the rotors out because a quick loosening and tightening of the caliper screws gets me there in 10 seconds. I will shim one though.

it's true that 142 isn't going away.
and in designing something you have to look ahead, not backwards, otherwise you're limiting possible use.

http://revanchebikeco.wordpress.com/

April 30, 2014, 9:48 a.m.
Posts: 11680
Joined: Aug. 11, 2003

Internal cable routing for all cables, including rear brake. Looks clean, adds some detail. I've always found that I'm obsessive when building my own bike, and dealing with internal cables don't bother me at all. If it makes the bike look cleaner, all the better.

Also would want 142mm rear end. Lateral stiffness is nice on any bike, and why bother with 135x12 when 142x12 exists.

The only reason I would ever say that 142mm on a hardtail was worth it, would be because I had other bikes that had 142 and I wanted to swap wheels. I don't think it makes any difference on a hardtail.

I'm not a fan of internal cables, they look nice, but that's it. I've got a road bike where the cables rattle inside the top tube and it drives me nuts. Really well thought out external routing is really nice.

Also, I like the mechanical clamps for cables, so much tidier than zip ties. My Ragley came with them, they've never come loose, they look really nice, and the cable routing is really well thought out to utilise them fully.

April 30, 2014, 1:33 p.m.
Posts: 0
Joined: April 26, 2014

The only reason I would ever say that 142mm on a hardtail was worth it, would be because I had other bikes that had 142 and I wanted to swap wheels. I don't think it makes any difference on a hardtail.

I'm not a fan of internal cables, they look nice, but that's it. I've got a road bike where the cables rattle inside the top tube and it drives me nuts. Really well thought out external routing is really nice.

Also, I like the mechanical clamps for cables, so much tidier than zip ties. My Ragley came with them, they've never come loose, they look really nice, and the cable routing is really well thought out to utilise them fully.

Right, I do agree, the solution that makes everyone happy would be a swapout dropout. but I had no luck sourcing them.
This is a personal bike, so I'll probably go with 135.

Internal cables in steel are passed through a brass tube, so there's no rattling, as the ID of the tube is 6.0mm, so it's a perfect slip fit. they rattle less than zip ties.

I like the bolt in cable guides because you can change your options, use a fd or not use it, the cables look clean with a few euros of hardware swap (no empty spaces).
and you can run full housing (though zipties do that as well, must be said).

bit lighter as well, though it's only about 40g.
bit less work, so I can concentrate on putting the time where it'll actually make a difference, like swarovsky crystal headtube badges, a crowd pleaser every time.

The biggest draw for me about clamp on guides is the new xtr FD, it means you can use top of downtube cable routing,

This is going to be easier for FS cable routing, and as the majority of the mtb market is fs, I'm sure it will be successful.

Top of Dt routing: it's easier to clean that way, as it's the bottom of the dt that gets dirty
The bike looks cleaner, as you only have one place for all the cables, and they're all nice and straight,especially if you paint the inside of the main triangle black, so the cables disappear.

+ with the top of dt, I can use an internal dropper post and have a clean cable run.

I think, asides from the dropouts, that's it.

thoughts?objections?criticism?ideas?

As soon as the postie brings me a 42mm downtube I'll get to it, thought of using a 38mm, as I already have a few, but a 42 profiled to 39/45 would be even better for fore aft stiffness, like using a gusset, but lighter and more elegant.

Even slightly profiled tubes do make a difference to ride quality, though it takes more time.

http://revanchebikeco.wordpress.com/

April 30, 2014, 3:27 p.m.
Posts: 148
Joined: Nov. 19, 2002

I should try lowering the argyle on my steely. I'm not sure if I have enough steer tube length to keep my bars in the right spot, but it's worth a look. A little less travel up front might be an improvement and is worth experimenting with.

I've been feeling like my samurai is a bit weird at 150, might need a bit more air pressure, but last night tried switching more between the 150 and 130….the 130 does feel a bit better, never even thought about that before I started spending more time on the hardtail again!

May 9, 2014, 10:49 p.m.
Posts: 0
Joined: May 6, 2013

Good buddy of mine nearly finished his Rootdown build. Still to come: Hope 40T-Rex [HTML_REMOVED] Stealth Reverb

June 1, 2014, 3:15 p.m.
Posts: 712
Joined: Aug. 10, 2010

Another chromag this one has been out having fun whilst waiting for an upgrade no idea how much it weighs but it has got a coil fork and wide bars

Sent from my SGH-I257M using Tapatalk

Shredding hypothetical gnarr

June 2, 2014, 8:38 p.m.
Posts: 103
Joined: June 5, 2013

latest update with Raceface 32 N/W… weighs in now at under 28 lbs

June 3, 2014, 9:18 a.m.
Posts: 712
Joined: Aug. 10, 2010

looking good

Shredding hypothetical gnarr

June 3, 2014, 11:10 a.m.
Posts: 0
Joined: April 12, 2012

Good buddy of mine nearly finished his Rootdown build. Still to come: Hope 40T-Rex [HTML_REMOVED] Stealth Reverb

That looks great!

Stealth Reverb? I have a rootdown and as far as I know it doesn't have any way of running a stealth reverb unless I drill a hole or something. Maybe I don't understand what a stealth reverb is but I think it's the kind that goes with a frame designed to run the cable through the frame right?

I must say that if I can run a stealth dropper post with my Rootdown I'd be pretty pleased. :)

June 10, 2014, 12:22 a.m.
Posts: 633
Joined: Dec. 5, 2004

Switched to smaller heavier X-kings tubeless for this year. The old 2,4" were to high/thin/wobbly in cornering and sometimes buzzed the chainstays.

Also added some machined jockey wheels with japanese sealed bearings bought of ebay for really crisp shifting. Recommend!

Middle-of-night-sofa-picture:

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