NSMB - 2014 Hardtail Thread
The Breadwinner won the MTB category at NAHBS this year. My Samurai 65 build is definitely influenced by the Bad Otis :love:
am i the only person for whom that bike does nothing? frame looks like a gate; buddy should be on 29" wheels, aesthetically speaking
"Nobody really gives a shit that you don't like the thing that you have no firsthand experience with." Dave
yeah, it's nice, but I'm kinda meh on it
pretty, and a nice build.
but what's the point of the painted chainstay?how long's that going to last?
dunno, it just seems like you have to tick the right boxes.
xtr-check
king-check
enve with coloured stickers, check.
It's a pretty bike, but, it should be an exceptional bike.
and it ain't.
not keen on internal routing, what's the board's take on it?
It' looks nice, but it's a lot of work for very little benefit.
What features should a modern steel hardtail have?
31.6mm Internal dropper post routing.
external cables.
no fd mount (optional)
73mm BSA bb shell.
no iscg mounts
135mm
through axles aren't a benefit on hardtails, they also add to cost, most wheels that are 142 can be swapped to 135.unless you're using shimano hubs.
140-160 fork, using a manitou mattoc on mine.
clamp on cable guides,
stainless braze ons (paint leaves early here)
44mm ht (though tapered with internal hs looks better, look at the production privee shan)
67.5 HA, 73.5 SA, 420 chainstays, longish tt, seatube that gives a few cm margin of adjustability with a 150mm dropper post. I'm talking about custom bikes.
big 650b tyres, onza ibex on this one.for the tanwalls, aside from the good reviews.
chainstay brake mount.
bb height depends on terrain, I'd do a 305 unsagged with 2.4 big tyres.
I love a low bb (245 on the road!), but it's limiting.
a bit of spring, but stiff in the front.
inspired, yet sober paintjob.
The aforementioned shan would have sold 1/4 of what they sold if the paintjob had been plain.
monochrome (single colour, not the photograhy kind) is kinda dead.
that's the plan, though I'd love to hear opinions.
as I've got thus far on this, being a personal thing, paying work gets priority.
this factory is mostly OEM for a few small brands.
trying to find a suitable tube offcut to do a bilaminate headtube. would look good, asides from reinforcing the front end, plus it ticks a box. a personal one.
Why wouldn't you want ISCG 05 tabs? Even if/when I go 1x11 I'll run an upper guide/taco assembly. And I currently run a 1x10 on full taco guide.
Other than that I think you hit the mark.
If I was building another HT, I'd go with a Ti or lightweight steel frame, 68? HTA built around a max 120mm fork, 73? STA, 650b wheels, ISCG 05 tabs, possible pannier and fender mounts on the rear as well.
Have this for strictly XC duties and the Surface for le smash
Why slag free swag?:rolleyes:
ummm, as your doctor i recommend against riding with a scaphoid fracture.
What features should a modern steel hardtail have?
good question, and good first cut at a list
31.6mm Internal dropper post routing.
i guess. as long as the cable/housing doesn't move with the saddle head i think internal routing just adds cost and complications. plus running a 27.2mm post reduces some of the back-end harshness inherent in hardtails. probably best to go big though - you can always shim it down
external cables.
yes. see above
no fd mount (optional)
no iscg mounts
why build in less versatility? chromag's removable chainguide mounts seem like a great idea
135mm
through axles aren't a benefit on hardtails, they also add to cost
agreed
140-160 fork, using a manitou mattoc on mine.
dunno, i've spent a lot of time on hardtails and never really gotten on with more than 120mm of travel up front: feels too unbalanced, hta/trail goes nuts on full fork compression
clamp on cable guides,
i get the appeal, but despite using loctite i've been losing and breaking bolt-on cable guides at a ridiculous rate recently. never had a problem with brazed on guides and zip ties - if it ain't broke…
44mm ht, 67.5 HA, 73.5 SA, 420 chainstays, longish tt, seatube that gives a few cm margin of adjustability with a 150mm dropper post.
yep, yep and yep
"Nobody really gives a shit that you don't like the thing that you have no firsthand experience with." Dave
Why wouldn't you want ISCG 05 tabs? Even if/when I go 1x11 I'll run an upper guide/taco assembly. And I currently run a 1x10 on full taco guide.
Other than that I think you hit the mark.
If I was building another HT, I'd go with a Ti or lightweight steel frame, 68? HTA built around a max 120mm fork, 73? STA, 650b wheels, ISCG 05 tabs, possible pannier and fender mounts on the rear as well.
Have this for strictly XC duties and the Surface for le smash
because either you diy them or get them from paragon (I'm in yurp), both will add a lot of money to the final price, for something I don't think will be used that much, with the narrow wide rings having sorted that nearly completely, maybe a top guide, but that can be bolt on.
obviously, as these bikes are custom, if I get asked, I'll do it no probl.
pretty, and a nice build.
but what's the point of the painted chainstay?how long's that going to last
not keen on internal routing, what's the board's take on it?
It' looks nice, but it's a lot of work for very little benefit.What features should a modern steel hardtail have?
31.6mm Internal dropper post routing.
external cables.
no fd mount (optional)
73mm BSA bb shell.
no iscg mounts
135mm
through axles aren't a benefit on hardtails, they also add to cost, most wheels that are 142 can be swapped to 135.unless you're using shimano hubs.
140-160 fork, using a manitou mattoc on mine.
clamp on cable guides,
stainless braze ons (paint leaves early here)
44mm ht (though tapered with internal hs looks better, look at the production privee shan)
67.5 HA, 73.5 SA, 420 chainstays, longish tt, seatube that gives a few cm margin of adjustability with a 150mm dropper post. I'm talking about custom bikes.big 650b tyres, onza ibex on this one.for the tanwalls, aside from the good reviews.
chainstay brake mount.
bb height depends on terrain, I'd do a 305 unsagged with 2.4 big tyres.
I love a low bb (245 on the road!), but it's limiting.a bit of spring, but stiff in the front.
inspired, yet sober paintjob.
The aforementioned shan would have sold 1/4 of what they sold if the paintjob had been plain.
monochrome (single colour, not the photograhy kind) is kinda
My take:
- Cover that chainstay so painted or untainted doesn't matter. Quiet bikes are where it is at.
- internal cable routing. It is a pain but it sure makes a bike easy to clean. We live in a muddy part of the world so it is nice to be able to quickly wipe the tubes clean, throw some Finishline polish on her and be ready for the next adventure. It may seem trivial but as the worst/best example, try cleaning up a Specialized Enduro downtube!
- 31.6 seat tube ID. It opens up the parts spec to include all droppers. Drroppers have a 5-6" skinny section up top (~25mm on my Reverb) so you get the added comfort anyways.
- 12x142 rear axle. Sure you can reconfigure many hubs but so many of us have multiple bikes so being able to do a quick wheel swap without messing with an axle is really nice. Dry and fast? Take 30 seconds to throw on the lighter wheels with summer tires. Muddy the next day? Then quickly swap to the second set of wheels with winter tires.
- 120-140mm fork. Never been a fan of the goofiness of a HT with a long fork.
- 44mm HT for sure. There are some great looking headsets out there so let's show them off.
- Plain paint but with depth. Possibly add a couple of small contrasting bands on the stays to add some pop.
boomforreal, sorry I don't have the forum skillz for the multiple quote thing.
bear with me.
agree on 27.2 (tried to get some customers to use a 25mm seatpost, like the columbus ms had- in an ideal world I'd get customers on a range of seatposts from 25 to 35mm based on weight, but I'm not having a lot of success promoting that…)
internal dropper is probably the easiest internal routing, if you only have internal cables on the seatube, then meet the other cables on top of the downtube (externallly)
that said, external is easier, but I'm very happy with the reverb, and would have preferred internal had my frame allowed it at the time.
why build in less versatility? chromag's removable chainguide mounts seem like a great idea
true, as was the cove's widget version, bit complicated on a one off basis.
but see post above.
dunno, i've spent a lot of time on hardtails and never really gotten on with more than 120mm of travel up front: feels too unbalanced, hta/trail goes nuts on full fork compression
I loved my sovereign with 140 up front, 150 was fine as well, problem with 140 forks is step tech climbing is a pain; used the old pike, as well as dpc sektors, and found two settings a blessing.
might see if I can swap the mattoc for a dpa new pike. hope they sorted the dpa.
i get the appeal, but despite using loctite i've been losing and breaking bolt-on cable guides at a ridiculous rate recently. never had a problem with brazed on guides and zip ties - if it ain't broke…
why are they breaking?too far up to not let the cables turn a bit?
I used a single braze on cable guide on the 29er, it's neater, as you can ziptie 3 cables together.
The appeal, well, you don't have empty slots, as you can change them if you change your setup. if you're the obsessive compulsive type (not that any cyclist is…)
plus, a lot of frames are going to end their days as a singlespeed, this way they'll look more graceful doing so.
My take:
- Cover that chainstay so painted or untainted doesn't matter. Quiet bikes are where it is at.
- internal cable routing. It is a pain but it sure makes a bike easy to clean. We live in a muddy part of the world so it is nice to be able to quickly wipe the tubes clean, throw some Finishline polish on her and be ready for the next adventure. It may seem trivial but as the worst/best example, try cleaning up a Specialized Enduro downtube!
- 31.6 seat tube ID. It opens up the parts spec to include all droppers. Drroppers have a 5-6" skinny section up top (~25mm on my Reverb) so you get the added comfort anyways.
- 12x142 rear axle. Sure you can reconfigure many hubs but so many of us have multiple bikes so being able to do a quick wheel swap without messing with an axle is really nice. Dry and fast? Take 30 seconds to throw on the lighter wheels with summer tires. Muddy the next day? Then quickly swap to the second set of wheels with winter tires.
- 120-140mm fork. Never been a fan of the goofiness of a HT with a long fork.
- 44mm HT for sure. There are some great looking headsets out there so let's show them off.
- Plain paint but with depth. Possibly add a couple of small contrasting bands on the stays to add some pop.
agree on everything, except the wheel thing. though you do have a point, a Ht is often a second bike, and swapping wheels between bikes is often a ride saver, having said that, using the same hubs and the same discs on the same bike (3 wheelsets for a customer's cx bike) I still had to use the syntace shims to get everything to play nice, so maybe a wheel swap is more a possibility than something you do regularly, the bedding in of disc and pads, for example, takes a bit in the dry at least.
would you not buy a ht you liked everything else about because it didn't have 142x12?
first off, thanks all for your input.
I was looking at the cove widget, when I saw their hummer, the dropouts use 142x12, so I sent an email to Ceeway asking if the paragon ones on the cove would fit on the sliding ones I've already used.
That's one option.
the second is the one I already knew about, the two souls ones, but I prefer the versatility of swapping them out, as you convert to a rohloff with a 10euro part.
plus the 2souls dropouts are better for tig than fillets.
Mattoc, I looked at the pike dpa specs again, and remembered why I'd chosen it.
I can get it in 140mm.
the pike is 160-130. so not much difference in fork height.
that should be it.
dunno, i've spent a lot of time on hardtails and never really gotten on with more than 120mm of travel up front: feels too unbalanced, hta/trail goes nuts on full fork compression
I should try lowering the argyle on my steely. I'm not sure if I have enough steer tube length to keep my bars in the right spot, but it's worth a look. A little less travel up front might be an improvement and is worth experimenting with.
I should try lowering the argyle on my steely.
i ran a vanilla 140rlc on my chromag samurai for years, then switched to a revelation 140 u-turn that i'd crank down for climbs and back up for descents. one day i accidentally rode down with the fork in the lowered position and something clicked. a harsher ride, but the geometry felt better. i started experimenting with travel and found that 125mm was the sweet spot for descending - not coincidentally what ian had always suggested, but less than i, or anyone else i'd ever seen on a samurai, was running. morgan thinks its a bb-height thing, but i'm not sure: the samurai always felt planted and stable, but with less travel up front it just felt more… balanced somehow
"Nobody really gives a shit that you don't like the thing that you have no firsthand experience with." Dave
I felt the same thing on my BFe and Blender. 120mm is about right on a hardtail for me. But I have to run it pretty hard otherwise I still get that same unbalanced feeling.
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