Just about every manufacturer is making great bikes these days, I could probably swing a leg over just about any bike on the market right now and have a blast compared to the sketchy hardtails I started riding in the mid 90's.
I feel like with proper finesse and riding style you can mask the differences in reach, BB height, and head angle but one revolutionary geometry change I couldn't live without is the much steeper seat tube angles on bikes nowadays.
Others were dropping anglesets in Nomads as well as other bikes with 1.5 head tubes.
I never felt that the head angle was too steep on the MK2 Nomad, but rather than the seat tube angle was waaaaay too slack for me..my one and only gripe with the bike after 3 years on one.
Not knocking Banshee at all, but I rode the first gen Spitfire and I hated it. Could have been a prototype, not sure. I'm definitely not an enginerd, it could have been a fault with the fork offset, trail, or a multiple of issues but it was such a horrible climbing bike. Banshee must have sorted that bike out since then.
true, but modern = new and different, and someone has to innovate for these numbers to start coming together…
You're giving Banshee too much credit, both for innovation and design quality. As mentioned by Bogey, the general trend in 6"ish bikes over the years has been a movement into type-specific geometry. Yeti (ASR5), Intense, Cannondale, Banshee (Rune Spitfire) Giant (AC models), Norco, and Kona (lots), Rocky Mountain (Altitude), etc. have all used different / changing geo to sell bikes to emerging styles.
You can likely cherry pick particular exceptions, but I'd argue that the industry was moving along its enduro-marketing path well before Banshee moved on from the Scream / Chapparal.
More significant would be the short link suspension designs and non-26" wheel sizes, imho.
"It's, like, so much fun."
I never felt that the head angle was too steep on the MK2 Nomad, but rather than the seat tube angle was waaaaay too slack for me..my one and only gripe with the bike after 3 years on one.
+1 - 5yrs on a Nomad Mk2…HTA was great and I liked the slack STA. My main gripe was the rear shock [HTML_REMOVED] VPP suspension resulted in a lot of wallow mid-stroke, but that was cured with a custom rebuild from Avalanche.
I still have the Nomad and plan to ride it as my winter bike so I can tear down the new bike and get it ready for winter road trips to the desert.
Not knocking Banshee at all, but I rode the first gen Spitfire and I hated it. Could have been a prototype…
Lol. I spent five months on a G1 Spitfire and concur. So many issues with that bike, durability notwithstanding. It wasn't the worst bike I've ever ridden, but it was highly flawed.
"It's, like, so much fun."
Lol. I spent five months on a G1 Spitfire and concur. So many issues with that bike, durability notwithstanding. It wasn't the worst bike I've ever ridden, but it was highly flawed.
Exactly! I applaud them for pushing the envelope with the slack head angle, but it just didn't work when you had to climb back up the hill. But, I suppose we all have to start somewhere right?
Its astonishing to feel the difference in my Adhoc vs those earlier 6" travel AM/Enduro bikes. A slack h/a and yet the front wheel doesn't flop on climbs. A long wheelbase yet the bike is very nimble. Pointing it down hill and it is super stable. I don't understand it. lol
What is impressive is that the 6" AM bike category seemed to be dying a slow death with the introduction of modern aggro trail bikes before #enduro raised that shit from the dead thriller style!
Why slag free swag?:rolleyes:
ummm, as your doctor i recommend against riding with a scaphoid fracture.
I have never really taken pics of my brother's recently built OG Transition Bandit V1 that I pieced together for him this winter. Some parts I transferred over from his first mountain bike that he started on 3 years ago, but most of the stuff has been upgraded. But still OG by today's standards. He's quite stoked and says it's night and day difference from the previous ride.
- Transition Bandit 26 V1 Size Large 19.5"
- Fox Shox RP23 BV 130mm travel
- 2009 Rockshox Lyrik Solo Air 160mm
- FSA Gravity DX Pro headset
- Atomlab Pimplite wheelset (failed miserably to convert to ghetto tubeless)
- 2.4 Maxxis Ardents, rocking tubes
- Shimano SLX M665 brakes 203/180mm rotors
- Shimano SLX M660 cranks
- Shimano XT M770 Bottom Bracket
- E.13 Guidering 32T
- Shimano Saint M810 SS derailleur, 9 speed
- Shimano XT M770 11-34 cassette
- Shimano SLX M660 Rapidfire shifter
- Shimano XT Chain
- MRP Lopes SL chainguide
- Chromag Fubars OSX, 780mm wide, 25mm rise
- ODI Rogue lock-on grips
- Thomson X4 50mm stem
- 2012 Rockshox Reverb 420x125mm post
- WTB Deva SLT saddle
- Shimano XT M785 SPD pedals (first year clipless)
- DKG Flip-lock QR clamp
You're giving Banshee too much credit, both for innovation and design quality.
note: i didn't give them credit for quality. i had a couple of warranty issues on banshee frames (both of which were handled really well)
maybe, wrt innovation, but i don't think so
Yeti (ASR5)
slack sta
Intense
yeah, intense nailed the ss, but its worth noting that the ss may have been an accidentally great am/trail bike as it was intended to be a slopestyle (hence the name) bike (which is why the large fit like a medium) - sort of the way santa cruz accidentally made a great burly trail bike when they were designing a 4x version of the blur
Cannondale,
steep hta
Norco
the new range has some pretty progressive numbers, but it was late to the game to be considered innovative (also, actually sta is quite a bit slacker than listed)
Rocky Mountain (Altitude)
short tt
Kona (lots)
kona is pushing progressive geo HARD but only in the past few years - not sure his name, but their new designer killing it, batting for average and power
the bikes/companies you name all had some cool innovative geo ideas, but none of them put it together like banshee did with the original spitfire and the new rune: long(er), steep(er) sta, slack(er) hta, low(er) bb. i never rode one, so i can't speak for the suspension design, which i know you and many others really disliked. but fwiw i rode a v1 rune for years, and while i can appreciate the v4fb (or whatever) dual link design wasn't for everyone i got on quite well with it
"Nobody really gives a shit that you don't like the thing that you have no firsthand experience with." Dave
that dropper post cable is making me dizzy. whats that bike weigh in at?
Personally I don't like too slack of a head angle. I find my Nomad 2 a bit sluggish. Interestingly back before suspension Tomac would ride custom geometry frames with a 72 ha. And he was the best bike handler at the time. My riding style is slow and safe though.
Debate? Bikes are made for riding not pushing.
I like that bandit. Too bad they dropped the 26" version
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this is ENDURO!!!!!
this is ENDURO!!!!!
Carbon wheels make it more Enduro.
Point with boomforreal is taken but what I was trying to say was that Keith didn't pull the numbers for the Spitfire and Rune out if thin air; they were surely influenced by a bunch of things (research into competing products, proto design, testing, etc etc) that had been implemented in suspension design up until that point. You might think that the long and slack approach works great and is the culmination of a sorted suspension, which is totally great, but you can be assured that industry won't sit still on finding the next great thing after enduro runs its course.
"It's, like, so much fun."
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