NSMB - 2013 - Enduro/Trail Bike Build thread

[QUOTE=ol' dirty;2724096]Yeah man, those tires are overkill for anything involving pedaling!

I switch up tires alot, for fronts I like a 2.5 3c EXO DHF, you'll notice the weight difference but it'll perform almost as well. I'll also run a Spec Clutch 2.3 for something lighter/faster.

Rears I've liked are 2.5 60a DHF, or Spec Eskar 2.3. Purgatory 2.2 for really fast and dry conditions.

I hear the Hans Dampfs are good all rounders too…

HR2 EXOs are good options too. Those Spec SX tires are wicked but they're a bit heavy/sticky. Good for moto styles in the rain. I used to run SXs on my Delirium but times have changed - Cluth/Butcher SXs will probably be the next tires I run on my Demo.

This is not specifically directed at you, but I find the proliferation of air shocks to be a bit surprising and perhaps the comments below will explain why I feel this way. It's not an attack on your opinion and experience. I have never tried a CCDB Air, so perhaps that's the crux of this.

Not all shocks are created equal.

Agreed and in the last 5 years there have been some great improvements. Both coil and air.

The performance gain for the coil is marginal.

Marginal, whatever the margin, means you're suggesting the difference is small but still exists. My experience is that this margin can be quite large in certain conditions, and pretty minor in other conditions.

And I'd put the CCDB air up against many coil shocks as an equal in performance.

Perhaps I need to try a CCDB Air before I can say too much (but I'll go ahead and say too much anyway ), but you are not saying it's superior to coil, or even as good as some of the best. So, if the best you can do is potentially equal some (but not all) coil shocks, on some (but not all) terrain and conditions, then why are the vast majority of riders choosing an inferior product?

The obvious answer is to save weight. But really, is performance, sensitivity, durability and heavy hitting fun improved by saving 200g of static weight? Could a rider in a blind test tell if 200g was added to the shock? In a blind test I'm certain I could tell if I was riding an air shock vs a coil. I've not tried the CCDB air, but I have ridden air shocks on a Nomad, and I've run both air and coil on a Blur LT and a Blur 4X, and there is simply not a comparison. There will alway be instances where a coil will outperform any air shock, yet it doesn't go both ways. Why give that up?

Most of the air shocks seen in this thread are not CCDB, which I understand is a better performer than the other air offerings, so I see a lot of people choosing marginally lighter weight over quantifiably better suspension. Funny thing is, lots of people are falling over themselves to add a whole bunch of rubber and rim rotational weight to their wheels to make them bigger, when they aren't even running optimum suspension. I seriously don't get why.

HR2 EXOs are good options too. Those Spec SX tires are wicked but they're a bit heavy/sticky. Good for moto styles in the rain. I used to run SXs on my Delirium but times have changed - Cluth/Butcher SXs will probably be the next tires I run on my Demo.

I ditched the exo minions in favour of the clutch sx's….heavier yeah, but way better. I found the exo's sidewalls to be sketchy at best, you have to run pretty high pressure to prevent the sidewall from folding under hard cornering which really sucks when it's wet out and you want lower pressure for more grip.

weight/shock rant

best quote of the weekend, involving Jerry-Rig. "let's not talk about how much our bikes weigh, most boring conversation ever" or something along those lines. ;)

I ditched the exo minions in favour of the clutch sx's….heavier yeah, but way better. I found the exo's sidewalls to be sketchy at best, you have to run pretty high pressure to prevent the sidewall from folding under hard cornering which really sucks when it's wet out and you want lower pressure for more grip.

I've been happy with the clutch control tires. They are a couple hundred grams less than the sx casing. It's nice to have choices.

In a blind test I'm certain I could tell if I was riding an air shock vs a coil.

ditto. But for trail-y applications I would likely prefer the feel of air. And being 200g lighter is just the cherry on top.

My Hard Tail and Trail bike both weigh the same. 31.3lbs (carbon free, dual ply and lots of gears)

LOADS of fun.

I ditched the exo minions in favour of the clutch sx's….heavier yeah, but way better. I found the exo's sidewalls to be sketchy at best, you have to run pretty high pressure to prevent the sidewall from folding under hard cornering which really sucks when it's wet out and you want lower pressure for more grip.

Whoa, really? I comfortably run my EXO Minions at 26 psi in the front and 30 out back. You want less than that?

Whoa, really? I comfortably run my EXO Minions at 26 psi in the front and 30 out back. You want less than that?

If you want to run lower pressure than that, you might as well use dual ply DH tires. Single ply just do not have the same side wall support.

Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk 2

Whoa, really? I comfortably run my EXO Minions at 26 psi in the front and 30 out back. You want less than that?

I run the Clutch SX 2.35" tubeless on my Trance at 30psi. It's the best mid weight winter tire (wet weather) I've ever run. The grip and performance they offer makes one forget the few extra grams of the tire.

I run the Clutch SX 2.35" tubeless on my Trance at 30psi. It's the best mid weight winter tire (wet weather) I've ever run. The grip and performance they offer makes one forget the few extra grams of the tire.

How does a Specialized 2.3 (says 2.3 on their site) compare to the Minion 2.5 in width/volume? Are they more like a Schwalbe in that regard, where a 2.35 is more like a Minion 2.5?

I have put 2 rides on a High Roller II Exo 3C and it's pretty good so far. I'd like to see a DHR2 Exo 3C, but the clutch looks pretty good. I do run pretty high pressure though (36 wet and 40 dry) so I don't have a problem with sidewalls folding. They claim it's a 2.4 but it's as wide as the 2.5 Minion Exo ST I have in the front.

This is not specifically directed at you, but I find the proliferation of air shocks to be a bit surprising and perhaps the comments below will explain why I feel this way. It's not an attack on your opinion and experience. I have never tried a CCDB Air, so perhaps that's the crux of this.

Agreed and in the last 5 years there have been some great improvements. Both coil and air.

Marginal, whatever the margin, means you're suggesting the difference is small but still exists. My experience is that this margin can be quite large in certain conditions, and pretty minor in other conditions.

Perhaps I need to try a CCDB Air before I can say too much (but I'll go ahead and say too much anyway ), but you are not saying it's superior to coil, or even as good as some of the best. So, if the best you can do is potentially equal some (but not all) coil shocks, on some (but not all) terrain and conditions, then why are the vast majority of riders choosing an inferior product?

The obvious answer is to save weight. But really, is performance, sensitivity, durability and heavy hitting fun improved by saving 200g of static weight? Could a rider in a blind test tell if 200g was added to the shock? In a blind test I'm certain I could tell if I was riding an air shock vs a coil. I've not tried the CCDB air, but I have ridden air shocks on a Nomad, and I've run both air and coil on a Blur LT and a Blur 4X, and there is simply not a comparison. There will alway be instances where a coil will outperform any air shock, yet it doesn't go both ways. Why give that up?

Most of the air shocks seen in this thread are not CCDB, which I understand is a better performer than the other air offerings, so I see a lot of people choosing marginally lighter weight over quantifiably better suspension. Funny thing is, lots of people are falling over themselves to add a whole bunch of rubber and rim rotational weight to their wheels to make them bigger, when they aren't even running optimum suspension. I seriously don't get why.

You've ignored the benefits of air shocks other than weight. I only run a coil on my DH bike (and I'm considering going to a Vivid Air on my V10 and I have an air fork up front). On my Nomad I run a RS Monarch Plus which is a good compromise between an RP23 and good coil.

Benefits of an air shock to me:

1/ More adjustability - I can tweak the air spring in seconds with a pump. With a coil it doesn't take long to swap but it costs money to buy new coils and I only get +/- 50 lbs which is about 10% for me.
2/ Much better pedaling performance - I enjoy climbing as well as descending and I don't like the bob and squishiness of a coil when climbing especially when out of the saddle.
3/ Much lower weight - when you look at the weight savings of my bikes overall I've made compromises in DH performance in a few areas on each of my bikes. It all adds up to quite a few pounds and each bike is livelier an more fun to ride because of it.

I run SnakeSkin TLR Schwalbes at 25-26psi F+R. Super stiff casings though.

I ditched the exo minions in favour of the clutch sx's….heavier yeah, but way better. I found the exo's sidewalls to be sketchy at best, you have to run pretty high pressure to prevent the sidewall from folding under hard cornering which really sucks when it's wet out and you want lower pressure for more grip.

Tubed or tubeless and at what pressures? Just curious to hear other's experiences.