Mid-fat. 27.5+ on the shore?

Plus multiple EWS wins etc.

I honestly think someone will win a big Enduro on 650b+ at some point.

Perhaps that one that has the big long glacier snow start in Europe.

Plus multiple EWS wins etc.

oh i thought you meant a real race ;)

not discounting mosley's greatness, just curious: have any men won an ews stop on a 29er?

edit: oh wait leov, right

What was so wrong with Gazaloddis? I never used them because I was racing XC and none of my friends did either. Was it poor compound and/or tread? Too heavy for the time?

Weight and slow. Like pulling a boat anchor.

That said most bikes back then weight about as much as a boat anchor anyway.

It's different because of the tire technology you mentioned, and tubeless, carbon rims, and close to a 29" diameter so not only do they have ridicoulous grip but they roll over stuff better than 650b.

The only issue is high loading turns which is all down to sidewall tech. Will they get supportive enough for the fastest riders? I don't know, but I do know that Brendan Fairclough can roll ANY tubeless/sealant only tire off his DH bike in one berm. Does that stop the guys who think they're as fast as Brendan running tubeless DH tires?

If the tires get a bit better I think a guy who rides light like Nico would have a field day in loose dusty conditions on 650b+.

It's different because of the tire technology you mentioned, and tubeless, carbon rims, and close to a 29" diameter so not only do they have ridicoulous grip but they roll over stuff better than 650b.

The only issue is high loading turns which is all down to sidewall tech. Will they get supportive enough for the fastest riders? I don't know, but I do know that Brendan Fairclough can roll ANY tubeless/sealant only tire off his DH bike in one berm. Does that stop the guys who think they're as fast as Brendan running tubeless DH tires?

If the tires get a bit better I think a guy who rides light like Nico would have a field day in loose dusty conditions on 650b+.

Thanks, good reply. I had deleted my post because I thought it came across as argumentative, but the gist of it was:

In the early 2000s, 2.8-3.0 tires were the norm. Over time, consumers (not marketers) chose tires in the 2.2-2.5 range. Why is it going to be different this time around?

Things that are different than early-2000s:
- Lighter casings
- Faster treads
- Lighter, more efficient bikes overall
- Wider rims

But is all that enough to keep plus from being a short-lived fad?

Everyone around here knows I hate arguing :lol:

Everyone around here knows I hate arguing :lol:

pains me to admit it but i'm really enjoying your contributions to this thread

Over time, consumers (not marketers) chose…

:lol:

it being a banshee, i doubt the phantom would qualify as xc-race-like in terms of ride or weight

looks like it would be a BLAST to ride though

and, banshee quietly updated all of their bikes to be plus compatible, among other things

The Phantom and 111 are both awesome bikes, but definitely I was thinking more in line with the firm ride characteristics of an Element or Scalpel or Top Fuel with more "fun" geometry.

The argument from ignorance around 650b+ is so boring.

It's worse than with 29". You know those bikes that couldn't turn and would never win a race…

I definitely appreciate this comment as an early adopter of 29ers. Thinking back to what I was willing to ride on tires like the first-gen Racing Ralph, Ardent, Ikon, Aspen, Weirwolf, or Nobby Nic. Those tires were all awful with the exception of the Ikon 3c for XC. The 71/72-degree headangles to try and shorten the wheelbases was awful too. At the same time you could get genuinely good tires and geometry for a 26" bike.

Now 29'er tires are excellent and aside from EWS there is real talk that we will see them raced in WC DH (not just the California series) with production DH 29'er forks from the major players.

I still can't see someone racing the entire EWS series on a 650b+ bike, however, if you can have one bike that runs both 650b+ and 29er its totally believable that once tire tech is dialed some racers may use both options depending on conditions.

Its also exciting to think that if there is a real break through in tire construction (light weight / good support and durability) maybe from using other materials to reinforce the sidewall that benefits fat bikes and plus bikes we could very well see lighter but still supportive 29'er and 650b tires as well.

.

Agreed.

Can you imagine Minnaar on a 8" travel 29" V10…!

On some courses I think it would be laughably faster.

Agreed.

Can you imagine Minnaar on a 8" travel 29" V10…!

On some courses I think it would be laughably faster.

Definitely.

Especially when weather (very wet or very dry) is causing rapid change to surface conditions and pre-planned/practiced lines may no longer be optimum.

I definitely find, personally, going back and forth between 29" wheels and 650 wheels that the less familiar a trail is the faster I am on a 29'er (where on familiar trails it is more of a wash) and I can't see why that couldn't extend to someone who is exponentially faster than me on either wheel sizes.

This bike almost makes me want to eat crow. Almost.

But seriously, if a bike is built for 27.5+ with Boost front and rear axle spacing are 29" wheels/tires able to fit?

This bike almost makes me want to eat crow. Almost.

But seriously, if a bike is built for 27.5+ with Boost front and rear axle spacing are 29" wheels/tires able to fit?

I hear you.

I never thought I would use this vile expression, but that Scott plus bike "is the tits."

Wants and Needs be very fuzzy with all the new formats and tech that is coming out lately.

Wallet is definitely keeping me in check though. :)

Get your hands on a used aluminum 29" Enduro.

So much to play around with on those bikes.

2.8" 650b+ F+R, 29" F/650b R, 650b+ F/650b R blah blah…

Did you just recommend a bike with a 430mm chainstay? Also, is that a pig I see cruising at altitude?