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MEC = Dangerous

May 27, 2009, 1:17 p.m.
Posts: 1885
Joined: Oct. 16, 2005

looks like MEC's donations were earmarked for specific causes. does that change anything?

Are you not still supporting the same infrastructure regardless the specific event?

Mean People SUCK! Nice People SHOVEL!

Trails For All; Trails For Weather

May 27, 2009, 1:24 p.m.
Posts: 9747
Joined: Nov. 20, 2002

If I vote conservative do I support righ wing Christan anti abortionists ?

May 27, 2009, 1:35 p.m.
Posts: 381
Joined: Sept. 2, 2005

As posted by Heckler:

http://www.sierraclub.org/policy/conservation/mtnbike.aspx

The key argument taking place is about what constitutes Wilderness.

Congress, under pressure from powerful lobby groups, has interpreted legislation banning "mechanized travel" from "wilderness areas" to include bicycles.

Horses, which arguably cause significantly more errosion then bicycles, are not mechanized and therefore allowed.

FYI. This "wilderness" can include fireroads going into previously logged and mined areas. In many cases we are not refering to "pristine" wilderness.

So you are saying that the part about agreeing with the law to ban bicycles from Wilderness Areas is wrong? Ok. However, these wilderness areas are fairly well defined as seen in this Wikipedia article: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_U.S._Wilderness_Areas. It is the legal definition of Wilderness Area, as opposed to wilderness that has been mentioned in this article. Beyond that is the semantic argument of what counts as mechanized. I don't have an answer there, other than that I agree a bicycle is mechanized and I also agree a horse is not mechanized.

May 27, 2009, 1:38 p.m.
Posts: 11203
Joined: Nov. 18, 2004

:lol: smug reply :lol:

Whatever it takes to support those who support us, be it through buying small items like tubes and water bottles to complete bikes. The more we support those who support us the better we are…. and that's not just locally, that globally. As long as you feel happy about nickle and diming on tubes then that's all that matters.

May 27, 2009, 1:38 p.m.
Posts: 1885
Joined: Oct. 16, 2005

If I vote conservative do I support righ wing Christan anti abortionists ?

Locally?

That depends on your candidate.

Federally?

It is arguable that a majority of members (not voters) of the Conservative party are white, Christian, anti-gay marriage, and likely anti-abortion members of the moral majority.

My original point of interest in this thread is that someone in Sooke was arguing in support of MEC because of their contribution to the local trail organization. At the same time MEC was providing significantly greater funds in grants to an organization that was trying to ban riding in Sooke all together.

A local issue.

Linkage: http://bb.nsmb.com/showpost.php?p=2168902[HTML_REMOVED]postcount=57

-D

Mean People SUCK! Nice People SHOVEL!

Trails For All; Trails For Weather

May 27, 2009, 1:44 p.m.
Posts: 11203
Joined: Nov. 18, 2004

So you are saying that the part about agreeing with the law to ban bicycles from Wilderness Areas is wrong? Ok. However, these wilderness areas are fairly well defined as seen in this Wikipedia article: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_U.S._Wilderness_Areas. It is the legal definition of Wilderness Area, as opposed to wilderness that has been mentioned in this article. Beyond that is the semantic argument of what counts as mechanized. I don't have an answer there, other than that I agree a bicycle is mechanized and I also agree a horse is not mechanized.

I agree that there should some areas set aside for protection from mechanized vehicle use. What really bugs me is that this group wants to make that descision for me because they either don't like what I'm doing or don't understand it, therefore thinking that its wrong. I'd rather co-exist with another user group rather than exclude everyone based off some silly pseudo-scientific reason.

May 27, 2009, 1:49 p.m.
Posts: 1186
Joined: Oct. 21, 2008

You live in Burnaby?

You ride SFU/Burnaby Mountain?

A portion of your expenditures goes to grants for the Streamkeepers.

Lets talk about the closure of Upper Snake. BMBA vs. the Streamkeepers. Ha.

Never mind all the salt and de-icer SFU puts on its roads and walks or the fact it just doubled its footprint and those houses dump tonnes of chemicals etc. into any waterways on Burnaby Mountain which then travel through numerous other residential and industrial areas in Burnaby.

What we really have to fight is silt and erosion from a mountain bike trail.

Like any of the following trails on Fromme? The Streamkeepers don't:

Bitches
Executioner
Boundary
Lower Crippler
Digger

That's too bad. It's a shame that the bike shop located 3 doors down from MEC won't price match for regular folk off the street… I'd prefer to shop at a LBS but I won't pay more to do so. I don't expect extra special treatment or a price better then fair market value.

May 27, 2009, 2:03 p.m.
Posts: 15171
Joined: Nov. 20, 2002

You don't want someone else making THE decision … don't the different user groups fight for land acess?

May 27, 2009, 2:41 p.m.
Posts: 14413
Joined: Feb. 19, 2003

Whatever it takes to support those who support us, be it through buying small items like tubes and water bottles to complete bikes. The more we support those who support us the better we are…. and that's not just locally, that globally. As long as you feel happy about nickle and diming on tubes then that's all that matters.

Spare me the rhetoric.

I shop plenty at my local shop and I shop plenty at MEC. I buy whereever I'll get the most bang for my buck. If you want to go spend twice as much on a tube or a water bottle at a shop - be my guest…. oh wait, you said already that you get the 'great deals' that Joe average consumer doesn't. I guess that makes it easier to take the assumed moral high ground.

May 27, 2009, 4:19 p.m.
Posts: 11203
Joined: Nov. 18, 2004

You must be a joy for bike shops employees. "Yea I dunno, this toob says $5 on it. No way I'd pay that much"

Do they wave goodbye when you leave?

Anyway. we're debating two points here: support of the Sierra Club and pricing. I think the big picture, or the one of importance, is the fact they give donations to a group who is bent on taking land away from users. If you feel more comfortable that in saving $2 per tube is more important than the fact MEC supports eco-nazis then you're in the wrong sport.

May 27, 2009, 4:38 p.m.
Posts: 14413
Joined: Feb. 19, 2003

You must be a joy for bike shops employees. "Yea I dunno, this toob says $5 on it. No way I'd pay that much".

I've got a good relationship with my shop. I bought yet another bike from them this year and referred in a friend who bought a bike from them on my recommendation. I do all my own mech work (suspension excluded) and build my own wheels, so I buy my parts where it makes sense. I'm low maintenance, loyal and not dicking around about shitty little parts. Either they are price competitive and I buy it, or they aren't and I don't.

I also think Bro pricing is bullshit and that shops would be better served by instituting 'frequent buyer' cards to actually give discounts to the people that spend money.

Anyway. we're debating two points here: support of the Sierra Club and pricing. I think the big picture, or the one of importance, is the fact they give donations to a group who is bent on taking land away from users. If you feel more comfortable that in saving $2 per tube is more important than the fact MEC supports eco-nazis then you're in the wrong sport.

But you're right, price competition is somewhat of a seperate issue. I took a look at MEC donations in BC for 2008. They did give some money to Sierra club. 15 thousand dollars. That was on a donation page that listed out about 442 thousand dollars. I'm not going to research what each and every project is, but some of the project titles are fairly indicative of the nature of their work. The amount they funded is the number at the start of each line item.

They seem like real dicks :rolleyes:

6512 Allan Brookes Nature Centre - Okanagan Collaborative Conservation Program: Strategic Planning
7000 Cetus Research and Conservation Society - Straitwatch Outreach to Kayakers in Johnstone Strait
5000 Canoe Kayak BC - Mamquam River Access Fundraiser
8000 Living Oceans Society - How Climate Change Affects the Ocean and BC Coastal Communities
5000 Society for a GE Free BC - Public education and outreach on genetically engineered crops
5000 World Wildlife Fund Canada - Pacific Region/Vancouver Office - WWF-Canada Young Leaders Program
5338 Denman Island Conservancy Association - Central Park Trail Development
3000 DreamRider Theatre Society - Keep Cool! A play about climate change
5000 Squamish Access Society - Squamish Climbing Stewardship Strategy
4000 LifeCycles Project Society - Home is Where We Live - Spring Ridge Commons Permaculture Food Garden
4000 Wolverine Nordic and Mountain Society - Monkman Pass Memorial Trail
3000 Alberni Valley Outdoor Club - Alberni Inlet Trail
15000 Sierra Club of Canada - BC Chapter - Mobilizing British Columbians to Save the Flathead Valley
10000 Galiano Conservancy Association - What a Marine Life
10000 SeaChange Marine Conservation Society - EcoRowing Environmental Education Program
10000 Skeena Watershed Conservation Coalition - Sacred Headwaters Education/Outreach 2008
10000 Dogwood Initiative - Coastal Oil Tanker Campaign
14420 Klabona Keepers Society - Klabona Fisheries Research
10000 BC Spaces for Nature - WildED Program - The Outdoor Classroom
10000 Peace Valley Environment Association - Keeping the Peace
14000 Watershed Watch Salmon Society - Farmed salmon-wild salmon disease interactions
10000 British Columbia Creek Protection Society - BCCPS Run-of-River Awareness Program
10000 Professional Environmental Activists Association - Professional Environmental Activists Association
2322 Garry Oak Ecosystems Recovery Team Society - Capacity building for species recovery and restoration in Garry oak ecosystems
9676 Cetus Research and Conservation Society - Straitwatch Outreach to Kayakers in Johnstone Strait 2009
50000 Nanaimo [HTML_REMOVED] Area Land Trust - Mount Benson Acquisition Project
22500 Skeena Watershed Conservation Coalition - Get the Shell Out!: SWCC Capacity 08-09
25000 Sage Centre - on behalf of Green Legacies - Green Legacies Online Training Project
6500 TLC The Land Conservancy of BC - Vancouver Island/Coast - Conservation Holidays
6950 Perry Ridge Water Users Association - Perry Ridge Ecological Reserve - Valhalla Park Extension
25000 Dogwood Initiative - Dogwood Capacity Building: Database Upgrade and System Integration
10000 YMCA YWCA of Greater Victoria - Camp Thunderbird - Camp Thunderbird Youth Sea Kayaking Equipment Upgrade
12000 Association of Mayne Island Boaters - Pumpty Dumpty II Project
500 Raincoast Education Society - Raincoast Explorers - Children and Youth Environmental Education
10200 The Land Trust Alliance of British Columbia - Protecting Land, Carbon and Communities
3000 Kimberley Nature Park Society - Kimberley Nature Park Trail Guide
15000 Smart Growth BC - The Sea-to-Sky Greenbelt Initiative: A Smart Growth Legacy
35000 Carrier Sekani Tribal Council - First Nations Conservation Strategy
15000 Educo Adventure School - Educo Experiential Wilderness Programs
9280 BC Nature - formerly Federation of BC Naturalists - Expanding Awareness and Protection of IBAs in BC

May 27, 2009, 4:41 p.m.
Posts: 14413
Joined: Feb. 19, 2003

You must be a joy for bike shops employees. "Yea I dunno, this toob says $5 on it. No way I'd pay that much"

And what's your normal line? "Dood - I can get these gloves at a moto shop for a third the price. No way I'm buying em here".

May 27, 2009, 5:03 p.m.
Posts: 14413
Joined: Feb. 19, 2003

MEC gave these jerks 12 grand to help create a boat to deal with recreational effluent (read: help stop people dumping their boat sewage directly into the ocean).

http://www.mayneboaters.com/
http://www.mayneboaters.com/pdf/pumptyIIproposal.pdf

the bastards.

May 27, 2009, 5:06 p.m.
Posts: 14413
Joined: Feb. 19, 2003

OMG - 10 Grand to upgrade sea kayaks at a kids summer camp! Unforgiveable.

http://www.victoriay.com/campthunderbird/

May 27, 2009, 5:29 p.m.
Posts: 11203
Joined: Nov. 18, 2004

lol… so MEC does some good charitable work, therefore we should overlook the donations they give to anti-mountain bikers. Solid reasoning.

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