Posted by: Endur-Bro
I have an OG Surface. Would love to get something similar but with much longer front end, slacker HTA, steeper STA, maybe longer stays...
http://trillioncycles.com/shug/
Why not sickbicycleco?
All those things you want and cooler than a cool thing.
Posted by: Kenny
On fast flow trails there's no real difference. On slow tech trails there's also not much difference. On fast trails with chunk or lots of small drops like John deer or severed, the chromag is a handful and the Bronson makes mincemeat out of them. At least at my skill level. Obviously John deer is a simple trail and you could ride anything down it, but I can pretty much let go of the brakes and smash it on the Bronson. On the chromag I am just doing what I can to stay on the pedals. I feel little need to bring the Bronson to fromme, chromag is great, but I simply don't have the skill or risk tolerance to smash something like ladies at high speed so maybe that's why.
I have a Range 29 and Rootdown BA.
My experience on the hardtail is similar to yours. The hardtail is at home on smooth pumpy trails and steep tech, but suffers a bit on fast trails with high-frequency bumps. It just doesn't track the ground well on trails like John Deer or stuff on Galbraith, which would be considered fast flow on my Range.
On fast trails that are really rough like Ned's, the key is to ride the hardtail fast enough that it starts skipping over the top of bumps. This takes a bit of commitment, and it's either a really slow and cautious pace, or fast and aggressive. But riding rough trails at a middle speed is quite jarring. That threshold needs to be crossed.
Similar to others, I find I ride the hardtail more in the winter. I also like riding it on solo rides, since it keeps me out of trouble. The Range just craves the fastest, roughest, steepest trails, and I don't want to have a big stack by myself in the woods. The Chromag makes me pick windier, lower-consequence trails and makes them challenging and rewarding in situations where the Range would be a bit dull. In the summer, when I'm riding 4 times a week, having the hardtail lets me mix up the experience on the same old Shore trails.
My impressions of the Rootdown: I am running it with a 2016 Pike at 150 with 29er wheels. Prior to the Rootdown, I had a Kona Taro (budget aluminum bike with same geometry as the Honzo) with a 120 mm fork. I really love how the Chromag rides, but there are a couple things I would change:
The biggest thing is that the Chromag frame is about 3 whole pounds heavier than the Kona frame (it's close to 7 lbs), and I notice it. The Kona had a sense of urgency and was easy to throw around. The Chromag plods along a bit more. I'm not convinced an overbuilt steel frame is much more compliant than an alloy frame, so I don't think an alloy bike is worth ruling out. But next time, I'd check out a lighter, more compliant steel frame that's closer to 5 lbs, if such a thing exists.
I also think I prefer a shorter fork on a hardtail. With the 120 fork, there wasn't as drastic a steepening of geometry as the bike moved through its travel. The 150 fork makes the bike a bit harder to set up. I have to run my bars a bit higher than I'd like at static ride height to not feel like I'm being pitched over the bars when the fork gets moving. I also run the air spring firmer than I would on a full-suspension. Given that the Rootdown is designed around a 160 fork, 150 is as short as I'd go to avoid a near-vertical seat tube angle. But I think my next hardtail will be one designed around a 120 or 130 mm fork.
I have a Mk1 Rootdown (QR rear, no stealth dropper routing) and as a "one bike for most stuff" and to be honest it works great for this.
New Rootdown... seems to tick a few of the boxes so far.
Posted by: Cabana76
I have been lusting over a green Chromag Rootdown for a while now. I would build it up at 27.5+ and use it as the "fun" bike when I want to switch from my Jeffsy 29.
A friend of mine has had a Rootdown 27.5+ as his only bike for about a year, and loves it. He rides pretty much anything on Seymour and Fromme. Maybe not the double blacks so often, but he'll give them a go with it.
I just picked up my new Rootdown frame in Whistler, gunna be a while till it's all built up...but I think it should be fun.
I've been on both in the last few years, and have ridden the Rootdown (non-BA) on trails all over the province. I can echo most of what D_C said, although I settled on a 140mm travel fork and really like it.
It was my only bike at the time, and it basically just required a more active riding style. This was generally awesome, as the payoff on a hardtail is pretty rad - getting a hardtail running smoothly is very satisfying. There were days when I was super tired from work or previous rides or gym when I wanted to be able to chill a bit more. The bike quickly forces you to slow it down if you're going to do that, there's no "meh, I'll just plow" option. My Stumpjumper is my only bike now but I am working on getting the Rootdown built back up as I miss the hardtail experience. It seems pretty amazing how much simpler the bike feels even though it has all the other doo-dads but rear suspension that a fully would.
That Trillion Shrug looks awesome. Their bigger sizes are what I was hoping the Rootdown BA would be. They're a bit pricey but fair given that they're made in Scotland. But for nearly $3k you could get a full custom steel HT made locally to your exact specs.
I test rode a RBA last year. It was awesome. Surprisingly capable. Definitely able to do way way more than expected. But a hardtail will always have a narrower margin for error so mistakes you might not pay for on a suspension bike become amplified. Good times for sure.
Posted by: craw
That Trillion Shrug looks awesome. Their bigger sizes are what I was hoping the Rootdown BA would be. They're a bit pricey but fair given that they're made in Scotland. But for nearly $3k you could get a full custom steel HT made locally to your exact specs.
I test rode a RBA last year. It was awesome. Surprisingly capable. Definitely able to do way way more than expected. But a hardtail will always have a narrower margin for error so mistakes you might not pay for on a suspension bike become amplified. Good times for sure.
I think the Trillion pricing includes a CC Helm fork.
Posted by: Endur-Bro
Posted by: craw
That Trillion Shrug looks awesome. Their bigger sizes are what I was hoping the Rootdown BA would be. They're a bit pricey but fair given that they're made in Scotland. But for nearly $3k you could get a full custom steel HT made locally to your exact specs.
I test rode a RBA last year. It was awesome. Surprisingly capable. Definitely able to do way way more than expected. But a hardtail will always have a narrower margin for error so mistakes you might not pay for on a suspension bike become amplified. Good times for sure.
I think the Trillion pricing includes a CC Helm fork.
On second look I think you're right, which means roughly $2300CAD for frame, headset and fork, which is definitely better.
I have both an Ibis Ripley (v2) and a Surface. I can echo what everyone else said - the Ripley gets the nod for the majority of the summer or on long, backcountry rides. The Surface gets the nod for most of my weekday/post work rides and during the winter. While not having the suspension to bail you out on off days is a bummer, there is something just so grin-inducing about hitting jumps and clearing technical bits on the hardtail.
The answer is always n+1.
With all the glowing feedback how could I not end up with a hardtail right now? I’ll be so stoked to add one. Only questions I need to sort out is 29r?, and how important will saving 2 or 3 lbs on the frame be? I keep bikes for a long time so that’s a factor too. Maybe a ti bike is warranted.
This thread has been super helpful. Thanks so much to all for your guidance as to where a good hardtail is useful and where it’s not.
Posted by: Ddean
how important will saving 2 or 3 lbs on the frame be?
Although my old Kona Taro also had a steeper HTA and shorter-travel fork, which may have contributed to its snappiness, it definitely had more get-up-and-go than my current Rootdown BA and weighed about 3 lbs less.
It looks like that Trillion Shug is 2.1 kg, or 4.6 lbs. That's pretty light. (https://bikerumor.com/2018/06/01/trillion-cycles-doubles-up-with-130mm-shug-hardtail/)
The Cotic SolarisMAX also looks sweet and comes in at 4.9 lbs. Chainstays are longer, which may or may not be your thing. Keep in mind that geo chart is based on a sagged fork, so not apples to apples with other hardtails (https://www.cotic.co.uk/product/solarisMAX)
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