make or break

I'd say mine is at the limit. No I've not actually ridden anything or seen anything that is in the too low range. Too much sag and mine is definitely functionally unrideable.

i think i found the limit here in this very short lived experiment. (~160mm travel):

it wasn't per se unrideable, but sure made you aware of your feet. felt pretty cool. when you weren't pedaling.

I am very fussy about setting up a bike, but one thing that irritates me about some people's set ups are how how their bike's headtube is. I suppose most bikes I've owned, the headtube has been around 4" long, so I'm used to a certain height. A tall bar makes it feel like I can't get enough weight over the front. Can't be too low though. I suppose it's all relative to rider size.

I don't like the head angle too slacked out if its a trail bike. It makes climbing too awkward, and climbing is already hindered on these bikes. 66ish is what I like.

Water bottle mounts for me are a non issue as I get older. I sweat so damn much now that I can down a water bottle in one go. It might sound weird but I also don't like having extra things hanging off my bike. It throws me off hahaha

Water bottle mounts for me are a non issue as I get older. I sweat so damn much now that I can down a water bottle in one go. It might sound weird but I also don't like having extra things hanging off my bike. It throws me off hahaha

I carry water in a bladder in the pack; I carry gatorade in the bottle, go through one or two a day depending how long of a day it is and how hot.

Low stack and/or short head tubes on bigger sizes. It's absurd that a tall person would need the same length head tube as someone who rides a small.

Low stack and/or short head tubes on bigger sizes. It's absurd that a tall person would need the same length head tube as someone who rides a small.

i spoke to ian at chromag about this years ago. iirc the head tubes on all of their frames are the same length regardless of size. i thought this was nuts - he made the point that you can always add spacers or run higher-rise bars if you want to go taller, but (unless your kperras) you can't go lower than the static head tube measurement will allow

I have quite a few spacers under my stem on my reign, they have super short head tubes….

i spoke to ian at chromag about this years ago. iirc the head tubes on all of their frames are the same length regardless of size. i thought this was nuts - he made the point that you can always add spacers or run higher-rise bars if you want to go taller, but (unless your kperras) you can't go lower than the static head tube measurement will allow

Nothing quite like adding 3cm of spacers and a 30mm rise bar to save manufacturers the hassle of building bikes that fit right.

How is it justifiable to vary top tubes and seat tubes but not head tubes?

How is it justifiable to vary top tubes and seat tubes but not head tubes?

jesus, did you even read my post!?!?

jesus, did you even read my post!?!?

Don't worry I'm with you. I'm just complaining :)

A wonky seat tube angles kills a bike for me. Gotta be soooo careful with the curved and offset seat tubes these days.

Too slack and my arse is behind the cassette and the bike won't climb without the front wheel popping up and wandering 1/2 way to Alaska. Too steep and my knees hit the bloody shifters when I'm turning on uphill switchbacks and I feel like I'm riding a time trial bike.

I really wish manufacturers would list an effective seat tube angle at a typical seatpost extension instead of at stack height. At 6'5" tall it is extremely hard to find an XL or XXL demo bike so buying a bike based on a geo chart is risky business.

I'll throw fork offset into the mix. People can look at head angle in isolation but it's only part of the issue. I had a Revelation on my Whishart hardtail when I first built it up and the bike felt great other than some annoying wheel flop. I changed the fork out to a Suntour Auron set to the same axle to crown and the handling is completely different. Zero wheel flop but still nice and stable with around 65.5 degree HA.

Similar with my daft old Balfa….Decent steering with an old Manitou Nixon but I swapped the fork out for a nice looking dinosaur of a White Brothers FR3 for a laugh. Again same axle to crown but quite a bit of understeer on corners this time.

but i'm curious: what is the one aspect of a bike's design that can make or break it for you

A frame that MSRP's for $6,000.

If every frame but one was $6,000 I'd easily find a way to like it regardless of everything else.

A wonky seat tube angles kills a bike for me. Gotta be soooo careful with the curved and offset seat tubes these days.

Too slack and my arse is behind the cassette and the bike won't climb without the front wheel popping up and wandering 1/2 way to Alaska. Too steep and my knees hit the bloody shifters when I'm turning on uphill switchbacks and I feel like I'm riding a time trial bike.

I really wish manufacturers would list an effective seat tube angle at a typical seatpost extension instead of at stack height. At 6'5" tall it is extremely hard to find an XL or XXL demo bike so buying a bike based on a geo chart is risky business.

i got scoffed at once before for misinterpreting how a measurement was defined by the bike industry - one that made no sense in relation to how a person actually rides a bike. i agree it would be great to see some sort of industry standard measurement rules so people could make sense of things.

on topic, i've found reach [HTML_REMOVED] seat tube angle to be something that kills a bike for me. too far back and the front wanders, too far forward and your knees are hitting the bars.

i wonder if anybody builds mtb's from the rider out? maybe the advantage to getting a custom built bike.

i wonder if anybody builds mtb's from the rider out? maybe the advantage to getting a custom built bike.

I went custom mainly because I'd always wanted a fillet brazed frame and jumped on an opportunity, but figuring out the geometry was a fun process. It was nearly two years ago when the process started and I wanted something longer and slacker than what was out there at the time, as I have a long torso and 'short' legs. These days it seems to fit with some of the more forward thinking European companies (Production Privee etc).