New posts

long travel wagon wheelers

Jan. 14, 2020, 10:48 p.m.
Posts: 762
Joined: June 29, 2006

Posted by: tungsten

Posted by: Znarf

Posted by: tungsten

too steep

too low

nice though

What is too steep? =)

The seat tube angle is a revelation for long legged and or tall people.

I´ve spent the year on a V1 Madonna and have now sold off all my other bikes with different geometry. In comparison they are unridable.

Seriously - as good as the Madonna looks on paper - ride one and you will buy one if it generally is your type of bike and you have rowdy trails (and you've got LOADS of them in BC) ;-)

And then, a full riding season later you'll love it more, because the bearings are still clean and running smoothly and even if you HAD to change them, it is dead simple. On my boutique carbon bikes a bearing swap always felt like a cardiac medical transplant to me ;-)

I totally LOVE this bike!

Oh I'm just a little concerned about the rush to extremes. If seat tube was a degree slacker (I 172)* and bb 340 w/170 the want would be bad. Real bad.

The welding is beautiful.

Glad u lovin' yours.

CM better hurry up w/some deets before I buy a RipAF.........

*Know how road frame st angles get slacker the bigger the frame? Wish mtn bike makers would do similar but in reverse. WEithin reason...

Ok, I hear you :)

RAAW actually has exactly what you demand. Bigger frame sizes have steeper STAs and smaller a slacker one, also shorter and longer chainstays. Maybe not slack enough for what you want though? I find that ideal STA and shoe size influence each other actually, additional to size, leg length, proportions etc.

Jan. 15, 2020, 10:17 a.m.
Posts: 182
Joined: Jan. 2, 2018

Posted by: tungsten

Oh I'm just a little concerned about the rush to extremes. If seat tube was a degree slacker (I 172)* and bb 340 w/170 the want would be bad. Real bad.

The welding is beautiful.

Glad u lovin' yours.

CM better hurry up w/some deets before I buy a RipAF.........

*Know how road frame st angles get slacker the bigger the frame? Wish mtn bike makers would do similar but in reverse. WEithin reason...

Would be interested to ride one for sure. I've been on a RipAF since right around when it came out and it's a pretty versatile machine for the sea to sky, at least as a guy who rides a pretty even mix of blue and black trails it certainly feels like the right tool for the job. The Madonna seems a super well thought out machine for someone whose typical ride leans further to the Enduro side of things though. 

I'm not sure I'd want a steeper seat angle for my size/body type - I'm 5'11" on a large Ripmo AF. I don't have super long legs but climbing tight switchbacks my knees nearly hit the bars with the seat about the middle of the rails. I'd need 490-500 reach with a 78 degree STA to have a reasonable ETT, or slide the seat way back which kinda defeats the purpose.

Jan. 15, 2020, 10:41 a.m.
Posts: 182
Joined: Jan. 2, 2018

I was also going to say, that BB height definitely scares me a bit. Both the AF and my previous bike (Bronson v2) have 341mm BBs and 150mm of travel and they are as low as I can really tolerate, personally.

Jan. 15, 2020, 10:56 a.m.
Posts: 1053
Joined: Nov. 8, 2003

Posted by: Kenny

...

I'm not sure I'd want a steeper seat angle for my size/body type - I'm 5'11" on a large Ripmo AF. I don't have super long legs but climbing tight switchbacks my knees nearly hit the bars with the seat about the middle of the rails. I'd need 490-500 reach with a 78 degree STA to have a reasonable ETT, or slide the seat way back which kinda defeats the purpose.

That's the thing with extreme geometry right? You still need to, like, ride the thing.

Jan. 15, 2020, 11:36 a.m.
Posts: 23
Joined: May 1, 2018

I’d love to see more adjustable BB heights. Or just higher all round, 335mm is super low. 

Maybe someone needs to set up 140mm crank manufacturing.

Jan. 15, 2020, 12:23 p.m.
Posts: 130
Joined: March 14, 2017

My BB is 335mm on a 155mm travel bike and with 165mm cranks I have no issues with pedal strikes.

Jan. 15, 2020, 9:30 p.m.
Posts: 762
Joined: June 29, 2006

My first bike with a low bottom bracket was a Santa Cruz Heckler (2003 model) - the bb height resulted in a couple of nasty crashes where I accidentally placed the pedal somewhere at speed where I shouldn’t have.

I then adjusted to it and while I was a bit scared for a while, the riding and cornering characteristics of the low bb where something I didn’t want to miss.

With the yet lower bb of new school enduro bikes, where bb height hovers right at the „very dangerously low“ point, I find dynamic ride height is critical.

On my 2018 Orbea Rallon 29“ BB drop is 28mm in the higher and 35mm in the lower setting (same 35mm like on my RAAW).

I crash and find pedal clearance not sufficient on the Orbea with the lower setting, but on the Madonna I can absolutely get away with that. Static sag is comparable. At the same sag the Madonna is more sensitive yet doesn’t mush in the mid stroke as much.

I do notice when my shock is quite a bit underinflated and too soft, edgy roll-ins into rock rollers then give crunchy noises.

I absolutely have to admit that slim pedals and 170mm cranks help. I really couldn’t imagine the bb getting any lower on this kind of bike. And I also hope I don’t accidentally land a big jump or drop with one pedal in the 6 o’clock position :D


 Last edited by: Znarf on Jan. 15, 2020, 9:31 p.m., edited 1 time in total.
Jan. 15, 2020, 10:35 p.m.
Posts: 1730
Joined: May 23, 2006

Posted by: Znarf

new school enduro bikes, where bb height hovers right at the „very dangerously low“ point, I

otoh new spesh is 347- commencal meta am 356- reign/ht/raf 340/1- hd5 351- sb165 345 propain and reeb up there too

My BB is 335mm on a 155mm travel bike and with 165mm cranks I have no issues with pedal strikes.

yah if I were 25 and weighed 135 I could spin 165's too

335mm is super low.

ougtha' be agin the law


 Last edited by: tungsten on Jan. 15, 2020, 10:52 p.m., edited 1 time in total.
Jan. 22, 2020, 3:40 p.m.
Posts: 1
Joined: Jan. 15, 2020

Hey, I'm looking for a new bike, shortlisted GeoMetron G1 and Raaw Madonna V2. Ridden G1 on 2 occasions, second time with full setup for my weight and style. Liked the bike, felt very confidence boosting on steep tech stuff. Unfortunately didn't have chance to test its behaviour on slower trails with closed turns and tight switchbacks - I'm bit worried how the slack HA would impact the behaviour there.

For Raaw I only read reviews of previous versions plus a recent one for V2.

Both bikes look amazing and have good story behind. G1 is more pricy (mainly because EXT shock).

G1 is more adjustable in geo, but I don't think I'd play too much with the mutators anyway. Madonna has cleaner look and fits a bottle...:)

Both bikes are well refined and are basically a developed second generation of the same concepts (G16>G1, Raaw V1>V2).

My current bike is SC Bronson V2. I'm 5'11 and would get size L.

Would be happy for any thoughts since I cannot find any of these bikes better than the other, which makes this sweet decision making tough...

Cheers

Jan. 22, 2020, 8:32 p.m.
Posts: 872
Joined: March 18, 2017

Good position to be in. I have a preference towards the G1 as I have a G16. Mutators are awesome. Can do more with geo changes. 

How many switchbacks are you doing in a ride? 1-5% of your total ride at best. Unless you’re based in the Alps.  Seems like if all you are riding is switchbacks maybe a unicycle or taking up hiking is a better option

Jan. 22, 2020, 9:40 p.m.
Posts: 762
Joined: June 29, 2006

I haven’t ridden a G1, but I bet it is a great bike!

I love my Madonna V1 (which is obvious at that point). I can only add that I disassembled my frame yesterday, checked all the bearings and cleaned it thoroughly.

Even after a full season in dusty and then wet and nasty conditions they were all fine AND the grease around and on (and inside probably) the bearings also was still virgin fresh. (there are sealed caps around the sealed bearings). Best thing was, the total disassembly and the assembly were a breeze. No pressure or convincing was necessary to reassemble pivots and frame parts - fool proof and no corners cut during construction. (which can’t be said about my last couple of boutique frames I disassembled, with the exception if Santa Cruz).

But I guess Nicolai should be absolutely comparable!

Regarding geometry - then pros far outweigh the cons if you don’t buy an XL at your height. You’ll manage tighter corners after a couple of weeks and maybe you’ll wonder how you could ride too small bikes for so long :)

I ride a Madonna V1 in large. I have ridden my buddies XL often as well. At 6“ both work and I can happily ride the XL with a bit shorter stem (mine has a 40mm his a 30mm). A Large should be a great fit for you.


 Last edited by: Znarf on Jan. 22, 2020, 9:41 p.m., edited 1 time in total.
Jan. 22, 2020, 9:48 p.m.
Posts: 1053
Joined: Nov. 8, 2003

Posted by: human_touch

Hey, I'm looking for a new bike, shortlisted GeoMetron G1 and Raaw Madonna V2. Ridden G1 on 2 occasions, second time with full setup for my weight and style. Liked the bike, felt very confidence boosting on steep tech stuff. Unfortunately didn't have chance to test its behaviour on slower trails with closed turns and tight switchbacks - I'm bit worried how the slack HA would impact the behaviour there.

It's a legit concern. Couple common examples: Turn downs on Upper Tall Cans and the tighter turns of 7th Secret are noticeably more awkward on a long travel 29er, for me at 5'10" anyways. 

Butt buzz on steep roll ins is something to take note of too.

Lots of positives to offset these points, but might as well go into it eyes wide open.

Jan. 23, 2020, 8:42 a.m.
Posts: 2300
Joined: Sept. 5, 2012

Personally the Raaw V2 or the Privateer 161. Would be on my list over the G1. I think the G1 is too raked out in the HT . I think the other 2 would have better slower speed trail manors.

Jan. 23, 2020, 12:38 p.m.
Posts: 762
Joined: June 29, 2006

Posted by: Hepcat

Posted by: human_touch

Hey, I'm looking for a new bike, shortlisted GeoMetron G1 and Raaw Madonna V2. Ridden G1 on 2 occasions, second time with full setup for my weight and style. Liked the bike, felt very confidence boosting on steep tech stuff. Unfortunately didn't have chance to test its behaviour on slower trails with closed turns and tight switchbacks - I'm bit worried how the slack HA would impact the behaviour there.

It's a legit concern. Couple common examples: Turn downs on Upper Tall Cans and the tighter turns of 7th Secret are noticeably more awkward on a long travel 29er, for me at 5'10" anyways.

Butt buzz on steep roll ins is something to take note of too.

Lots of positives to offset these points, but might as well go into it eyes wide open.

That's right! Keep frame sizes and body dimensions in mind! One man's (or woman's) trash can be another man's gold!

For me at 6" I´ve never buzzed the rear tire on my 29er, 27.5er and 26ers and find tight corners pretty manageable, I loved 7th secret and the tighter sections on Crinkum Crankum and lower part of Kirkford even more on my long 29er compared to my moderate wheelbase 27.5er and short wheelbase 26er (three visits to the NS). But I have a tall inseam and shorter bikes now feel awkward (and in retrospective always have, I just didn't know better), because I never really knew where I should fold my long arms and legs into or around the small, cramped space between the bars and the pedals =)

But that will absolutely vary with body dimensions, riding style and preference. And I met enough people who totally outride me on short and or otherwise very different bikes.

One area which I personally find very difficult with long bikes: Slow speed drop off style stunts with short, flattish sniper landings with subsequent stunts and or ledges following immediately. I struggle to place the long bike in between obstacles and went over the bars twice in the last two seasons. Rider error. Some old school stunts are really dangerous on these newish bikes, when downtube or chainring scrape the lip or run-in of a steep low speed crawl roller. (like the one on 7th secret at the inside of a sharp left-hand turn, if I remember correctly.

Looking at some gnarly old school stunt features I can totally wrap my head around how someone could design a long travel freeride bike with 68degree head angle, but 180mm travel, 365mm bb height, 380mm reach and high-rise bars. I recently hopped on such a bike though and rode it for a bit. It was nostalgic -> in the sense that I felt like I could go over the bars unintentionally even on level ground.

Modern bikes are fantastic!


 Last edited by: Znarf on Jan. 23, 2020, 12:40 p.m., edited 1 time in total.
Jan. 23, 2020, 8 p.m.
Posts: 872
Joined: March 18, 2017

Oh another thing; Nicolai guarantees to have spare parts in 10yrs from now.

Forum jump: