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long travel wagon wheelers

Nov. 20, 2019, 3:08 p.m.
Posts: 482
Joined: Jan. 31, 2005

Posted by: T-mack

Posted by: craw

Posted by: T-mack

Posted by: LoamtoHome

Leo is an Industrial Designer and not an actual engineer... this is the main problem but another one is his arrogance. People will still buy but good news is that the main players are getting to the good geo that Pole and Geometron has.

I think I'm the only one that's actually noticed but the actual suspension design is a ripoff of the Canfield design.

Canfields don't pivot around the BB.

The instant center still moves in the same manner however which is what matters. I suspect Leo got around the patent because Pole is based over seas? I could be wrong though.

Evolink Instant center https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iIr9GKVQ_k8

Canfield Instant center https://www.vitalmtb.com/forums/The-Hub,2/Canfield-Brothers-Unveils-CBF-Suspension-Patent,9373

You're right they're similar but definitely not the same. Giant Maestro suspension Is also similar. I think the path the IC tracks throughout the travel would be the actual sticking point but I don't know enough about the patents to really know.

Nov. 20, 2019, 3:49 p.m.
Posts: 198
Joined: March 6, 2017

Posted by: craw

Posted by: T-mack

Posted by: craw

Posted by: T-mack

Posted by: LoamtoHome

Leo is an Industrial Designer and not an actual engineer... this is the main problem but another one is his arrogance. People will still buy but good news is that the main players are getting to the good geo that Pole and Geometron has.

I think I'm the only one that's actually noticed but the actual suspension design is a ripoff of the Canfield design.

Canfields don't pivot around the BB.

The instant center still moves in the same manner however which is what matters. I suspect Leo got around the patent because Pole is based over seas? I could be wrong though.

Evolink Instant center

Canfield Instant center https://www.vitalmtb.com/forums/The-Hub,2/Canfield-Brothers-Unveils-CBF-Suspension-Patent,9373

You're right they're similar but definitely not the same. Giant Maestro suspension Is also similar. I think the path the IC tracks throughout the travel would be the actual sticking point but I don't know enough about the patents to really know.

Fun fact: Meastro is a Dave Weagle design.  

Anyway Chris Canfield himself explained it to me which was pretty cool but basically the CBF design makes it so the chainline and IC rotate around the chain ring so no matter where you are in the travel, the squat values stay relatively unchanged which is what the patent focuses on more or less. Pole did the same thing with it rotating around the chainring albeit with a modified path, but still damn similar. The Weagle (Maestro) design, although has 2 rotating links is quite different.

Nov. 21, 2019, 7:04 a.m.
Posts: 482
Joined: Jan. 31, 2005

Posted by: T-mack

Posted by: craw

Posted by: T-mack

Posted by: craw

Posted by: T-mack

Posted by: LoamtoHome

Leo is an Industrial Designer and not an actual engineer... this is the main problem but another one is his arrogance. People will still buy but good news is that the main players are getting to the good geo that Pole and Geometron has.

I think I'm the only one that's actually noticed but the actual suspension design is a ripoff of the Canfield design.

Canfields don't pivot around the BB.

The instant center still moves in the same manner however which is what matters. I suspect Leo got around the patent because Pole is based over seas? I could be wrong though.

Evolink Instant center

Canfield Instant center https://www.vitalmtb.com/forums/The-Hub,2/Canfield-Brothers-Unveils-CBF-Suspension-Patent,9373

You're right they're similar but definitely not the same. Giant Maestro suspension Is also similar. I think the path the IC tracks throughout the travel would be the actual sticking point but I don't know enough about the patents to really know.

Fun fact: Meastro is a Dave Weagle design.  

Anyway Chris Canfield himself explained it to me which was pretty cool but basically the CBF design makes it so the chainline and IC rotate around the chain ring so no matter where you are in the travel, the squat values stay relatively unchanged which is what the patent focuses on more or less. Pole did the same thing with it rotating around the chainring albeit with a modified path, but still damn similar. The Weagle (Maestro) design, although has 2 rotating links is quite different.

I guess really all that Maestro has In common with the other two Is the co-rotating links. Interesting.

Nov. 28, 2019, 5:21 a.m.
Posts: 31
Joined: May 1, 2018

I’ve been really digging my Spartan 29 of late. I’ve said it before in here but have found it so versatile recently it’s stuck me as a near perfect example of the breed. Coil front and rear, just does what it should. It’s taken a load of abuse too.

Dec. 30, 2019, 6:39 p.m.
Posts: 643
Joined: Feb. 24, 2017

reviews are trickling in from the latest and greatest eh. the Spesh enduro has taken a beating in the media for the last 5 years at least and the new one has roared back to the front with breathless reviewers fawning over it. climbs almost as well as it descends or so it goes. right up there is the surprisingly goldilocks like reviews of the Slayer, PB notwithstanding.  descends as expected, but climbs like a great something or other. nimble and almost playful on moderate terrain, then devours big mtn like godzilla, yada yada.  less than extreme geo looks quite good to me, like a subtle but necessary step forward from the BC Instinct.  i can't wait to throw a leg over...

Jan. 3, 2020, 8:30 a.m.
Posts: 771
Joined: Nov. 18, 2015

Yeah, the new Slayer seems like a win. Most of the people who I speak with describe it a bit different however; people who have the new and have had the old Slayer describe the new one as "a different beast", "bigger hit bike", "feels like a DH bike"....and the old one as a more versatile trail bike than the new one. Who knows, I havent ridden the new one. Wheel size aside, I think that there was a lot of overlap between the last Slayer and the Instinct (and Altitude for that matter) that the same person could be happy on either one. My guess is that the new Slayer is a bigger bike and agree, likely more separation from Altitude and Instinct than the old Slayer. Perhaps Rocky will create further separation by changing the Altitude and Instinct too.

I really like my last gen Slayer for its versatility. Feels like a great trail bike to me!

Also agree that the new SWorks Enduro looks like the big winner this year.


 Last edited by: Ddean on Jan. 3, 2020, 8:30 a.m., edited 1 time in total.
Jan. 3, 2020, 8:43 a.m.
Posts: 140
Joined: March 14, 2017

what do you guys think of a high pivot (idler) bike for a 160-170mm single crown bike?

Jan. 3, 2020, 9:38 a.m.
Posts: 4857
Joined: Nov. 25, 2002

all over this. something like a commencal supreme sx with big wheels.

Jan. 3, 2020, 4:44 p.m.
Posts: 198
Joined: March 6, 2017

Posted by: xy9ine

all over this. something like a commencal supreme sx with big wheels.

Forbidden said on their instagram that 'big' things are coming in 2020

Jan. 3, 2020, 8:46 p.m.
Posts: 352
Joined: May 11, 2018

Don't know if this counts as long travel (150/134) but it's my first full suspension 29er as well as the first one I've sized up (XL instead of L). Will be a big riding bike in my world. Gonna get up early tomorrow, strap my lights on and take it for it's maiden voyage.

Jan. 3, 2020, 11:34 p.m.
Posts: 1173
Joined: Sept. 30, 2006

New Process?  Nice!  I will be interested to hear what riding a bike with 510mm reach is like?  That STA makes it look even longer. I’m not sure how they call that 76.2 degrees, looks slacker to me.

Jan. 4, 2020, 4:06 p.m.
Posts: 239
Joined: Sept. 10, 2012

Posted by: shoreboy

New Process?  Nice!  I will be interested to hear what riding a bike with 510mm reach is like?  That STA makes it look even longer. I’m not sure how they call that 76.2 degrees, looks slacker to me.

Effective STA in geo chart is probably measured with top of saddle level with top of head tube. Given the slack Actual STA and the low Stack that seems reasonable. As the rider raises the saddle above the head tube the Effective STA gets slack fast.  This demonstrates how hard it is to evaluate STA from a geo chart.

Jan. 6, 2020, 7:17 a.m.
Posts: 85
Joined: July 5, 2010

Posted by: T-mack

Posted by: xy9ine

all over this. something like a commencal supreme sx with big wheels.

Forbidden said on their instagram that 'big' things are coming in 2020

I could be wrong but suspect WeAreOne will have a hand in both designing AND manufacturing the new Forbidden 'enduro' bike.

- WeAreOne has already stated in interviews their next project will be building a frame

- WeAreOne seems to have a tight relationship with Forbidden, i.e. WeAreOne boys are riding Druids and Forbidden speccing WeAreOne components

- WeAreOne is currently hiring for multiple carbon fibre layup technicians

Coincidence...or 100% made in Canada carbon bike?

I'm also curious to know what the numbers are going to be for this production model (although judging by pic SA looks too slack and HA too steep):


 Last edited by: robnow on Jan. 6, 2020, 7:42 a.m., edited 4 times in total.
Jan. 6, 2020, 12:14 p.m.
Posts: 198
Joined: March 6, 2017

I'm also curious to know what the numbers are going to be for this production model (although judging by pic SA looks too slack and HA too steep):

This I'm eagerly waiting for although I'm sick of waiting for it lol

Jan. 6, 2020, 1:06 p.m.
Posts: 4857
Joined: Nov. 25, 2002

^ i was of the impression that the atherton "production" manufacturing model was more or less full custom. would be cool if they set up like the marino custom frame order page. pick your numbers from the drop downs & click buy. bespoke ti / carbon frame to your door with a few swipes of the mouse. i'm sure the price is hefty, tho. still not sure how they're going to turn that venture into a (somewhat) profitable venture. 

also - WAO and/or forbidden long travel frame would be rad.

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