Kona Magic link

Yeah, that sort of went nowhere.
Maestro, VPP, Horst link, ETSX are all names for the same thing, a 4-bar linkage. All of them have 2 pivots between the rear axle and frame. The only thing distinguishing some is careful manipulation of the patent wording.

I Recently read an expression (I think it was on Sicklines) that described all the Maestro/VPP etc bikes as having a 'Short 4-bar' linkage. I like that description.
All 4-bars are just variations of a double wishbone suspension system.

Steve the difference in all those 4 bar suspensions is the way they make the rear axle path travel. It also manipulates the progressiveness of the suspension. Different designs allow to accomplish a suspension that will be plush exactly where you want it and stiffer also where you want it. The vpp suspension creates a virtual axle path that looks like a S. It starts with an axle path that goes towards the rear. the direction of an impact affects the way the suspension works and that's what people are trying to control. Why do you think Balfa's bb7's were so smooth in the huge rock gardens?? Rearward axle path. unfortunately it is not the best design since the bike becomes longer by a lot.

The meastro suspension design is very similar to the vpp indeed but then again it is very different. The meastro positions the shock in a way that the linkage does not have to push the weight of the shock to compress it (same goes for the dw link) which technically means it is more sensitive to the small bumps. the dw or meastro have an axle path a little more linear then the vpp. the swingarm relies on a more vertical motion to pivot the shock link. the vpp relies on a more pivotal motion to pivot the shock link.

Anyways! Give Kona a break. Let's all try one and see what it can do. Personally I'm not attracted to the design but I'd be ready to try one for fun!

interesting.

id like a ride before i pass judgement!

Steve the difference in all those 4 bar suspensions is the way they make the rear axle path travel. It also manipulates the progressiveness of the suspension. Different designs allow to accomplish a suspension that will be plush exactly where you want it and stiffer also where you want it. The vpp suspension creates a virtual axle path that looks like a S. It starts with an axle path that goes towards the rear. the direction of an impact affects the way the suspension works and that's what people are trying to control. Why do you think Balfa's bb7's were so smooth in the huge rock gardens?? Rearward axle path. unfortunately it is not the best design since the bike becomes longer by a lot.

The meastro suspension design is very similar to the vpp indeed but then again it is very different. The meastro positions the shock in a way that the linkage does not have to push the weight of the shock to compress it (same goes for the dw link) which technically means it is more sensitive to the small bumps. the dw or meastro have an axle path a little more linear then the vpp. the swingarm relies on a more vertical motion to pivot the shock link. the vpp relies on a more pivotal motion to pivot the shock link.

Anyways! Give Kona a break. Let's all try one and see what it can do. Personally I'm not attracted to the design but I'd be ready to try one for fun!

I know. I was just pointing out that the general idea behind it all isn't a new one.

;)

The vpp suspension creates a virtual axle path that looks like a S.

Santa Cruz say the S shaped axle path (and the cards they gave away to explain it) was "misleading", i.e a lie.

Hi everyone, new to the board. Decided to go out on a limb and order one of these for my new FS bike. Should be here in a week or two hopefully.

Anyone understand the link system well enough to consider if there may be a way to lock it (or modify) so that it is always in the long travel position??

Thought that may be nice the days when I'm not really doing any pedaling.

Why do you think Balfa's bb7's were so smooth in the huge rock gardens?? Rearward axle path. unfortunately it is not the best design since the bike becomes longer by a lot.

not necessarily. the rearward axle path on a (slack angled) dh bike can be ~parallel to the head angle, which nets ~0 wheelbase growth. we're talking dynamic systems, so no absolutes, but the extending rear of high pivots isn't necessarily a bad thing.

the balfa wheelbase elongated more then an inch under full compression. The bike was sluggish in the turns and tight technical trails. That's why it wasn't the best design. Awesome for the eastcoast trails since there is only rocks down there and barely any berms at all.

not necessarily. the rearward axle path on a (slack angled) dh bike can be ~parallel to the head angle, which nets ~0 wheelbase growth. we're talking dynamic systems, so no absolutes, but the extending rear of high pivots isn't necessarily a bad thing.

BB7's were very supple on small bumps but they did get hung up quite easily on larger stuff. It also made you feel like the suspension was working against your pedaling. Still, it was one of the better single pivot designs ever made.

On the other hand the few times I've ridden a Kona, one of the things I really liked was how the suspension movement made it feel like it was "pushing" you forward. Kinda weird, but definitely noticeable.

I guess all this sums up why at the end of the day, I get the biggest grin when I ride my hardtail….