New posts

how bout a good ol fashioned tire thread

Oct. 5, 2020, 4:23 p.m.
Posts: 225
Joined: Feb. 24, 2017

Posted by: mrraulduke

I just set up a set of Conti Baron and Kaiser yesterday after a summer on the Michi Wild Enduros. I haven't put them to a wet test, but i did aim at some roots i'd avoid. i dint die, this was a good thing. with the weather getting ready to turn, I look forward to testing out the wet performance. I normally run a MM up front, DHRII in the rear for winters here.

The Kaiser felt a bit faster rolling than the Michi out back on an easy logging road climb. it looks quite ramped.

You like to live dangerously

Oct. 6, 2020, 11:21 a.m.
Posts: 22
Joined: Feb. 24, 2017

Posted by: mrraulduke

I just set up a set of Conti Baron and Kaiser yesterday after a summer on the Michi Wild Enduros. I haven't put them to a wet test, but i did aim at some roots i'd avoid. i dint die, this was a good thing. with the weather getting ready to turn, I look forward to testing out the wet performance. I normally run a MM up front, DHRII in the rear for winters here.

The Kaiser felt a bit faster rolling than the Michi out back on an easy logging road climb. it looks quite ramped.

I'm Conti-curious. Haven't ridden that brand in ages, but I know they have good rubber.

Wouldn't the Kaiser be a better front, and the Baron rear?  Baron looks fast, but those side knobs look pretty wimpy (I tend to kill wimpy side knobs in weeks **cough cough Dissector cough ***).  I also prefer strong braking in the front, the rear can just follow along in the slop.

My dream rear rear tire is slightly faster rolling than a DHR 'Terra, but with better wet root grip than the Aggressor.

Oct. 6, 2020, 2:50 p.m.
Posts: 27
Joined: Dec. 1, 2004

Posted by: JVP

Posted by: mrraulduke

I just set up a set of Conti Baron and Kaiser yesterday after a summer on the Michi Wild Enduros. I haven't put them to a wet test, but i did aim at some roots i'd avoid. i dint die, this was a good thing. with the weather getting ready to turn, I look forward to testing out the wet performance. I normally run a MM up front, DHRII in the rear for winters here.

The Kaiser felt a bit faster rolling than the Michi out back on an easy logging road climb. it looks quite ramped.

I'm Conti-curious. Haven't ridden that brand in ages, but I know they have good rubber.

Wouldn't the Kaiser be a better front, and the Baron rear?  Baron looks fast, but those side knobs look pretty wimpy (I tend to kill wimpy side knobs in weeks **cough cough Dissector cough ***).  I also prefer strong braking in the front, the rear can just follow along in the slop.

My dream rear rear tire is slightly faster rolling than a DHR 'Terra, but with better wet root grip than the Aggressor.

Well, I have 1 little ride, but people ahead of me in the forum here say that the Baron sticks to roots. Tts widely spaced and looks like it would be slow on the rear. I'll see tonight, and more importantly later this week when the rains come if  Heathen is right and i should only stick with an Assegai and DHR2 ....

Oct. 7, 2020, 12:46 p.m.
Posts: 225
Joined: Feb. 24, 2017

Posted by: ChocolateThunder

Disclaimer: PNW rider, not afraid of wet, always running CushCore Pro, Mullet or full 29.

Currently on WTB Vigilante 2.6" F high grip light casing, 2.5" fast rolling tough R. I am really enjoying this setup in the moist and unpredictable. I can feel the many knobs grabbing constantly, and they do well on moist, slippery surfaces, but still outdone by der Baron Projekt on such surfaces. They feel compliant at lower pressures, and grip well in a variety of levels of dirt firmness. At higher pressures necessary to prevent corner knob folding in dry berms, they don't feel so compliant over rough surfaces, though they still are little grip fiends. The rear is wearing too fast. Front not at all. Also, the "light" 2.6" is significantly heavier (1300g) than the "tough" 2.5" (1150g), actual weights. But they roll quite well IMO.

I have also spent a little time on a Verdict Wet F (light HG) and Judge (tough FR) R, and that Verdict Wet is a madman in the loose. I'm not sure I've ridden better in loam. But this combo is not exactly fast rolling, nor is it light (1290g, 1380g, respectively). I see it as a great training setup (heavy tires -> muscles!) to inspire confidence in many conditions. I was able to get corner knobs to fold on hardpack berms without enough pressure, like the vigi, or any tire I suppose, but i was running pressures quite low (15-17 PSI, mind you with CC). But overall really a great tire for mobbin'.

I only recently found the limit of the Conti der Baron Projekt in deep mud. Otherwise they are excellent tires that grip in all things wet. I have been very impressed with their grip on wet rocks, roots, in (not-too-deep) mud, and surprisingly in the dry, too. They feel wooden and require lower pressures. They are nicely round and roll well, and aren't too heavy (1010-1050g). They hold up in corners. An excellent all-around tire, though if it was more often dry than wet, I'd look elsewhere.

Dry: Michelin Wild Rock'R2

Wet & Sloppy: WTB Verdict Wet F, Judge R

Wet. Just wet: Conti der Baron Projekt

Mixed: WTB Vigi 2.5">2.6" = Schwalbe MM F 2.35">2.6", HD 2.35" R >>  Michelin Wild Enduro

PS

I am finding that as I've been running some larger tires to get more compliance on rough ground to inspire stability and confidence, these larger tires do not corner so well at the pressures that allow that compliance, leading to an unsupported corner knob, and knob folding. Unless I want to pump up these semi-plus tires to be too hard, the way to support the corner knobs better is with a stiffer casing, which creates, for all intents and purposes, a motorcycle tire (see; Eddy Current). So I am trying to find that balance of enough tire volume for compliance and durability, but small enough that the appropriate pressure that allows compliance is still sufficient to support the corner knobs, and the casing round enough to keep the corner knobs off the ground unless I'm actually trying to corner.

First off, great write up. Thanks for the awesome insight. 

I live on the island and the dirt around here is very aggregate and drains very well. Not a lot of "loam". 

On my Transition Scout I run Assguy 2.5wt MaxxGrip DD front and DHRII 2.4wt MaxxGrip DD or DH rear. This combo works great year round but I suspect a DHF would be better in the dry summers.

On my Chromag Wideangle I am struggling to find a combo I love. I run CC pro and 36mm rims on this bike. On the hardtail I feel the need for larger volume tires for more compliance and cushion. So the wider rims help support the higher volume tires.

First off I tried the wheels set off my fully. Loved the grip hated the harsh ride.

I tried Specialized Eliminator 2.6 BLK DMND. Ok in hot dry conditions. Terrible in wet and the sidewalls are too stiff. 

DHF 2.6wt MaxxTerra EXO. This is my favorite combo so. Great all round tire. The EXO casing with CC pro and 36mm rims corner hard and offer great cushion.  They are not great in the super loose marbles that develop in some areas mid summer and deep loam, for obvious reasons. To try and get more grip in these conditions I put an Assguy 2.6wt MaxxTerra EXO+ up front. This tire is marginally better. But it appears Maxxis is not using the same high volume casing as the Minion DHF 2.6 and the Assguy is slightly smaller casing. This doesn't impress me.

The Vigilante 2.6 high grip light casing has always interested me. But I have read some odd reviews and I am hesitant to spend/waist money on unknown tires, as I have been burn a few times. Andrew Major loves them.

What are your thoughts on the Vigilante 2.6 for cushion?

Side note mrraulduke just got the Baron Projekt 2.4 and they look awesome. The 2.6 version looks to not have as aggressive side knobs and a more round profile. 

Chromag

Oct. 8, 2020, 11:17 a.m.
Posts: 22
Joined: Feb. 24, 2017

I've got some good mileage in various conditions on the 2.6 DHRii EXO+ on the front. Rims are 32mm internal. Cornering and braking are fantastic, but I'm finding it a little bouncy off rocks. I've dropped the pressure to 20.5 psi, and might try 20. This is getting to the lowest pressure I want to go before I'm worried about burping the tire if I land weird off a jump, and keeping proper support on fast corners. OK for winter, but I'm not keen on 20psi on some of my favorite higher speed summer trails up higher in the mountains. 

With the 2.4 I can happily run from 21-24 psi with my preferred faster rebound setting, the 2.6 has a much narrower window. The 2.6 is good enough that I'll run it till the side knobs start cracking, but its back to the 2.4/2.5 next time. Maybe I'll throw in Tannus inserts for the winter to quiet it down a little bit and stay safe with lower pressures.

I was considering getting a hardtail with 2.6's. This is making me reconsider that.

Oct. 8, 2020, 12:04 p.m.
Posts: 225
Joined: Feb. 24, 2017

Posted by: JVP

I was considering getting a hardtail with 2.6's. This is making me reconsider that.

A hardtail with 150 to 170 with 2.6 to 2.8 is a blast to rip around trails. I was off hands for about two years when I got the Chromag. The leaning curve was steep as it is so much different then a fully. But it is a blast. You should try it.

Oct. 8, 2020, 1:20 p.m.
Posts: 1697
Joined: Feb. 26, 2015

Still waiting for the Maxx Grip Minions to come into the shops. May cave and get the wild Enduros instead... I'm pretty much riding a slick on the back which is for sure making things interesting.

Oct. 9, 2020, 8:59 a.m.
Posts: 328
Joined: Feb. 24, 2017

So I was about to put the Assegais back on my hardtail last night and in preparation I was wiping the dried sealant off the beads with a rag. I discovered that the Kevlar strands in the bead were not adhered to the inside of the bead. I could sort of bunch up the tire as I wiped the bead. That can’t be right can it? Maybe that’s why the tires were wobbly?

Oct. 27, 2020, 1:56 a.m.
Posts: 29
Joined: Aug. 13, 2017

After reading the glowing review from Cam (https://nsmb.com/articles/wtb-verdict-29-x-25-front-tire-reviewed-w-judge-rear/) I have purchased Verdict LHG and have a Judge TFR on order for the rear.  

I was talking to the owner of my LBS and he rated the combo for our local riding (Surrey UK).  As noted above i've been on Minions / Bontys for a while so it will be interesting to see how these go.  He did note that the Verdict Wet was great wouldn't run it on a pedal bike (they run them on ebikes).

Oct. 27, 2020, 7:09 a.m.
Posts: 225
Joined: Feb. 24, 2017

I just pulled the trigger on a set of Vigilante 2.6 Light, High Grip for my hardtail.  Can't wait to test.

Oct. 27, 2020, 9:49 a.m.
Posts: 955
Joined: June 26, 2012

I didn't like the Verdict for the Shore. The spikey side knobs felt less supported on hard surfaces than something like a DHF, Assegai or Wild Enduro Front. I felt like I could overwhelm and wash the front tire. It also felt like it had less grip than Maxxis Maxx Grip on wet roots. In soft dirt and duff, it worked well.


 Last edited by: D_C_ on Oct. 27, 2020, 9:49 a.m., edited 1 time in total.
Oct. 27, 2020, 10:08 a.m.
Posts: 24
Joined: Feb. 9, 2019

Posted by: fartymarty

After reading the glowing review from Cam (https://nsmb.com/articles/wtb-verdict-29-x-25-front-tire-reviewed-w-judge-rear/) I have purchased Verdict LHG and have a Judge TFR on order for the rear.

I was talking to the owner of my LBS and he rated the combo for our local riding (Surrey UK). As noted above i've been on Minions / Bontys for a while so it will be interesting to see how these go. He did note that the Verdict Wet was great wouldn't run it on a pedal bike (they run them on ebikes).

I am running a Vigilante LHG and Judge THG on my enduro. Very good grip on mixed surfaces ranging from loam to loose rocks, with plenty of roots inbetween. I'd be interested what your... verdict is on the Verdict!


 Last edited by: twk on Oct. 27, 2020, 10:09 a.m., edited 1 time in total.
Oct. 27, 2020, 10:23 a.m.
Posts: 1250
Joined: Nov. 8, 2003

Posted by: heathen

....

The Vigilante 2.6 high grip light casing has always interested me. But I have read some odd reviews and I am hesitant to spend/waist money on unknown tires, as I have been burn a few times. Andrew Major loves them.

What are your thoughts on the Vigilante 2.6 for cushion?

Side note mrraulduke just got the Baron Projekt 2.4 and they look awesome. The 2.6 version looks to not have as aggressive side knobs and a more round profile.

Chromag

I know many like them, but WTB's light casings I've tried have been a bit of a head scratcher. Kind of heavy, yet delicate.

(Not that there's anything wrong with being heavy yet delicate. Mom says I'm just husky yet sensitive).

The thin casing is as thin as any XC casing, with no sidewall protection. Combined with an oddly thick layer of extra rubber under the tread, and side knobs spaced twice as tightly together as other similar tires, it's portly for what it is.

Achieving heavier weight without notable performance gain remarkable. It's like a max/min design...


 Last edited by: Hepcat on Oct. 27, 2020, 10:26 a.m., edited 1 time in total.
Oct. 27, 2020, 10:53 a.m.
Posts: 225
Joined: Feb. 24, 2017

Posted by: Hepcat

Posted by: heathen

....

The Vigilante 2.6 high grip light casing has always interested me. But I have read some odd reviews and I am hesitant to spend/waist money on unknown tires, as I have been burn a few times. Andrew Major loves them.

What are your thoughts on the Vigilante 2.6 for cushion?

Side note mrraulduke just got the Baron Projekt 2.4 and they look awesome. The 2.6 version looks to not have as aggressive side knobs and a more round profile.

Chromag

I know many like them, but WTB's light casings I've tried have been a bit of a head scratcher. Kind of heavy, yet delicate.

(Not that there's anything wrong with being heavy yet delicate. Mom says I'm just husky yet sensitive).

The thin casing is as thin as any XC casing, with no sidewall protection. Combined with an oddly thick layer of extra rubber under the tread, and side knobs spaced twice as tightly together as other similar tires, it's portly for what it is.

Achieving heavier weight without notable performance gain remarkable. It's like a max/min design...

I just hope the sidewalls offer Maxxis EXO casing level flex. I tried the Specialized Back Diamond casing and it was way too stiff and made my hardtail feel like poop. The EXO casing is perfect supple flex.

Oct. 27, 2020, 7:30 p.m.
Posts: 266
Joined: Jan. 2, 2018

Have one wet ride and one icy ride on the conti baron/kaiser combo and can say I like them. 

-casing is stiff. I hate squishy unsupportive tires, so for me this is a positive. If you're really lightweight or like a "supple" casing these are not for you. Noticeably stiffer than exo+. At about 210lb ready to ride 22psi front and 24psi rear feels like plenty.

- great grip on greasy stuff as everyone says. Especially roots. 

- definitely an 'all Mountain' or 'enduro' tire, they roll noticeably slower than the SE4/SE5 combo I had before. I could see these being overkill for summer or for people that are doing more traverse-y type laps. On flatter trails they definitely feel like more work. 

So all in all, as a winter tire could not be happier! Definitely wish they made some faster tread patterns with this beefy casing more suitable for summer use.

Forum jump: