geo question

I'm currently looking for my next full susp trail bike and have a question about the geometry of my last one - 2008 Specialized Pitch. It was a medium and the cockpit felt small for my 5'11 frame (I am often in between medium and large depending on the manufacturer), especially with a 50mm stem.

When I look at the effective top tube figure it makes sense why the cockpit felt small to me, however, the "reach" is pretty long according to this page.

http://www.specialized.com/ca/en/bikes/archive/2008/pitch/pitchcomp#geometry

Is ^ that just an error on the site do you think?

Very steep effective seat angle is the reason. Note the intersection of the seat tube is forward of the BB.

This is typical of Specialized. They tend to have a large differential between seated and out of the saddle size.

Regardless, at 5'11" you're large on a Specialized.

Reach for the L '08 Pitch is listed at a too-gigantic-to be-real 480mm…sounds fishy. Kona Process L is 460mm, and they're the benchmark for long and low in a long and low trending market.

It's funny in MTB you don't ever hear about bb setback? In road and xc racing this is a vital number. Racers are very careful to maintain the exact bb setback when moving onto different bikes to maintain wattage etc.

If you want to measure setback to give yourself a baseline for your reach it's quick. Hang a plum line down from the nose of your saddle, mark your top tube. Do it again passing the line over the center of your bb, mark your top tube. Measure the difference.

Or just go buy a Kona, good lord they are so comfortable.

^Curious what Konas' BB setback is?

Dunno, I'm on a Giant lol. Must not be much though, Process feels long in and out of the saddle.

i remember seeing the reach numbers on the pitch a few years ago, and running them through a geometry calculator just for shits and giggles… they bear out, surprisingly; give it a try if you are curious: http://bikegeo.muha.cc/

edit: this tells me three things,
- effective seat tube angle numbers are bullshit,
- reach isn't the be-all-end-all handling and fit number it was originally presented as, and
- the pitch was an inspired design, ahead of its time

^That is why we have Reach+ now ;)

Wow kkpp, if those numbers are real than you might be in trouble finding something that fits, those numbers are way out into outerspace.

A S Pitch for example is listed as the same length as a L Trek Remedy. Your M pitch is listed as longer than an XL Spartan. Etc. You're looking at 3 sizes up for some manufacturers.

You might have to ask for the XXX stuff they keep hidden the back behind the black velvet curtain…

Or grab a tape measure and just verify for yourself.

Regardless, at 5'11" you're large on a Specialized.

Yup, was just a temp bike as I'm a newbie - got rid of it to get something more suitable.

Wow kkpp, if those numbers are real than you might be in trouble finding something that fits, those numbers are way out into outerspace.

A S Pitch for example is listed as the same length as a L Trek Remedy. Your M pitch is listed as longer than an XL Spartan. Etc. You're looking at 3 sizes up for some manufacturers.

You might have to ask for the XXX stuff they keep hidden the back behind the black velvet curtain…

Or grab a tape measure and just verify for yourself.

Don't have the bike anymore smart ass :p

You just got some good sizing info from experienced people willing to take the time to type up a reply.

Seat tube angles, bb setback, using a tape measure, a geometery calculator link, being told exactly what size you are in a Specialized. Good info all.

Go through the info given, everything you need is there. Look at the info about seat angle with special care. Realize that you were on a bike that would supposedly be an XL with many manufacturers. But take your previous geo numbers with a grain of salt and try and verify them if you can.

And sign off of a thead asking for help with something more appropriate than smart ass.

You just got some good sizing info from experienced people willing to take the time to type up a reply.

Seat tube angles, bb setback, using a tape measure, a geometery calculator link, being told exactly what size you are in a Specialized. Good info all.

Go through the info given, everything you need is there. Look at the info about seat angle with special care. Realize that you were on a bike that would supposedly be an XL with most manufacturers, and bigger than any L available. Not small by any means, and way way bigger than "between M and L". But take your previous geo numbers with a grain of salt and try and verify them if you can.

And sign off of a thead asking for help with something more appropriate than smart ass.

Umm chill out, I asked a simple question, got some good replies, learned something and that's about it… Not sure what I said to prompt you write out a bunch of paragraphs and tell me to break out the tape measure.

Alrighty then.

Well then id say stick with a medium regardless of brand. Dont worry about those pesky details

Can't you just sit on it and see if it fits?