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Educate me on Tubeless

Sept. 15, 2014, 10:29 a.m.
Posts: 641
Joined: Jan. 31, 2005

So I just built up some new wheels. A bunch of people asked me if I was going to run them tubeless. For now no because my current tires are nearly done but I have a fresh pair waiting to go on and I'm wondering if maybe I should.

One person told me that the benefit is to be able to run high pressures (to eliminate burping) while maintaining compliancy. He said his transition to tubeless was a revelation and that he would never go back to tubes.

Another guy said that big guys who like to corner hard shouldn't even bother. My recent experience burping both tires on a demo DH bike might support this theory (though I'm not 100% of the pressure of those tires).

It doesn't seem like switching will save me much weight if any, and I'll still need to carry a tube and pump for emergencies (right?). So the benefits are all in the ride.

Comments please.

There's nothing better than an Orangina after cheating death with Digger.

Sept. 15, 2014, 10:31 a.m.
Posts: 17927
Joined: Oct. 28, 2003

Although you need to carry a spare tube, you wont need to use it for pinch flats or pointy sharp things.

Sept. 15, 2014, 10:35 a.m.
Posts: 7566
Joined: March 7, 2004

You can run low pressures without pinch flatting. You can run a higher pressure and it will "feel" like lower pressure because of the way the tire can conform to the ground without a tube. You should still carry a spare tube, but you'll barely ever need it.

Sept. 15, 2014, 11:25 a.m.
Posts: 641
Joined: Jan. 31, 2005

You can run low pressures without pinch flatting. You can run a higher pressure and it will "feel" like lower pressure because of the way the tire can conform to the ground without a tube. You should still carry a spare tube, but you'll barely ever need it.

So you could run tubeless at a reliable burp-free pressure, say, 35psi but it feels like a tubed setup at 28?

There's nothing better than an Orangina after cheating death with Digger.

Sept. 15, 2014, 11:33 a.m.
Posts: 3724
Joined: March 6, 2003

So you could run tubeless at a reliable burp-free pressure, say, 35psi but it feels like a tubed setup at 28?

Yes.

There are ways to reduce the chance of burnping:

  • tight fitting tires
  • extra wraps of rim tape
  • higher pressure (35+lbs)
  • and in some cases use a rubber rim strip instead of tape and a valve (this gives a tigher fit on the bead)

www.FVMBA.com 

"If everything seems in control, you're not going fast enough."
-Mario Andretti-

Sept. 15, 2014, 11:37 a.m.
Posts: 133
Joined: Nov. 19, 2002

I still think tubeless is overrated…tubes also suck. Generally tire manufacturers need to stop compromising with flimsy sidewalls for lighter weight, imo.

Sept. 15, 2014, 11:44 a.m.
Posts: 641
Joined: Jan. 31, 2005

Yes.

There are ways to reduce the chance of burnping:

  • tight fitting tires
  • extra wraps of rim tape
  • higher pressure (35+lbs)
  • and in some cases use a rubber rim strip instead of tape and a valve (this gives a tigher fit on the bead)

I guess for the tire fit it's just trial and error.
What difference would extra rim tape make?

There's nothing better than an Orangina after cheating death with Digger.

Sept. 15, 2014, 11:45 a.m.
Posts: 641
Joined: Jan. 31, 2005

I still think tubeless is overrated…tubes also suck. Generally tire manufacturers need to stop compromising with flimsy sidewalls for lighter weight, imo.

I'm looking forward to seeing what trickle-down stuff comes from the Schwalbe ProCore system.

There's nothing better than an Orangina after cheating death with Digger.

Sept. 15, 2014, 11:45 a.m.
Posts: 19
Joined: Nov. 20, 2002

so far for me the only advantages is no pinch flats on my XC wheels and saves weight.

http://www.epiccyclist.com/

Sept. 15, 2014, 11:46 a.m.
Posts: 248
Joined: July 10, 2010

I switched to tubeless a year a go and absolutely love it. Around 150 rides and only one flat, rock slice on an older tire, required a tube to finish the ride. No burps, I ride at 23- 25 psi. I have used minion and hans dampf on Stans Flow rims.

Wider rims will help prevent burps.

Sealant weighs less than a tube, so some weight savings there.

Some tire / rim combos seat up better than others. Seen issues with Continental tires and I believe WTB does not work on Stans rims.

One caution, if the tire rim combo you have is more prone to burping it is dangerous to have it on the front tire, as a burped tire will stop you dead (superman), where as a burped rear is not as big of a deal.

Sept. 15, 2014, 11:47 a.m.
Posts: 4899
Joined: Nov. 25, 2002

really liked the schwalbe super gravity sidewalls this season. ran them ghetto tubeless at 22-23f / 25/26r with nary a flat or burp. i haven't ran tubless for a couple years, but decided to try again to make up for some the sidewall additional heft (i use 'just enough' sealant, which equates to ~100g of weight savings over tubes). beautiful setup.

Sept. 15, 2014, 11:59 a.m.
Posts: 641
Joined: Jan. 31, 2005

I switched to tubeless a year a go and absolutely love it. Around 150 rides and only one flat, rock slice on an older tire, required a tube to finish the ride. No burps, I ride at 23- 25 psi. I have used minion and hans dampf on Stans Flow rims.

Wider rims will help prevent burps.

Sealant weighs less than a tube, so some weight savings there.

Some tire / rim combos seat up better than others. Seen issues with Continental tires and I believe WTB does not work on Stans rims.

One caution, if the tire rim combo you have is more prone to burping it is dangerous to have it on the front tire, as a burped tire will stop you dead (superman), where as a burped rear is not as big of a deal.

I just built up some wide Derby carbon rims and the tires I'm waiting to put on are new WTB Vigilantes (AM/TCS) - which look surprisingly good. No idea how tight fitting this combo is. I guess we'll see.

There's nothing better than an Orangina after cheating death with Digger.

Sept. 15, 2014, 12:07 p.m.
Posts: 133
Joined: Nov. 19, 2002

really liked the schwalbe super gravity sidewalls this season. ran them ghetto tubeless at 22-23f / 25/26r with nary a flat or burp. i haven't ran tubless for a couple years, but decided to try again to make up for some the sidewall additional heft (i use 'just enough' sealant, which equates to ~100g of weight savings over tubes). beautiful setup.

too bad schwalbe tread only lasts about a month before it's shredded.

Sept. 15, 2014, 12:10 p.m.
Posts: 15019
Joined: April 5, 2007

^I've heard the Schwalbe tires still have the shoulder treads tear off. Too bad, as Maxxis folding bead DH tires seem to be lacking as well.

I guess for the tire fit it's just trial and error.
What difference would extra rim tape make?

Take up extra space, but only if the tape was almost the same width as the internal rim width.

I'd say going ghetto tubeless would work better for tightening up loose beads

Use TR tires and you should be okay

I'm looking forward to seeing what trickle-down stuff comes from the Schwalbe ProCore system.

Nothing! Did you see how many ProCore riders still flatted at WCs this year?

Why slag free swag?:rolleyes:

ummm, as your doctor i recommend against riding with a scaphoid fracture.

Sept. 15, 2014, 12:16 p.m.
Posts: 248
Joined: July 10, 2010

WTB Vigilantes (AM/TCS) - which look surprisingly good. No idea how tight fitting this combo is. I guess we'll see.

Think they don't work on Stans because they are too tight to get on their rims. Awesome looking tire if they match your rim though!

too bad schwalbe tread only lasts about a month before it's shredded.

The schwalbe trail-star holds up really well and is still solid in the wet. Imagine their vert-star is similar to maxxis super tacky for softness and with any soft rubber it will get eaten up quickly. Especially if you are ripping down the granite!

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