Educate me on Tubeless

For anyone having problems with tubeless, it is worth it to do it with the right equipment.

I'd agree with this. TR rims + TR tires + sealant = easy. Sure seemed to take a long time to get to this point thgouh, slitting bmx tubes n adding glitter to liquid latex etc…

I've used all TR components, and still not had the best luck.

I had zero luck running tubeless on 823 rims on my DH bike. I tried a variety of tires from Michelin, Maxxis and Hutchinson, both UST and non-UST, always with Stans sealant. I suffered from constant sidewall flats, pinch flats in the tread, burping etc etc. In the end I just gave up and went back to tubes and was much happier.

In contrast, my new trail bike came with Schwalbe Evo casing tires set up tubeless on Flow EXs and, for their part, they've been excellent. Granted, the one flat I did get happened in a race-run, and it sucked, but on the whole I've had way fewer flats than I expect I would have had had I been running tubes. I just changed out the tires for Specialized Purgatory Grid on the rear and Butcher SX on the front and, aside from the front slowly leaking for a few days after fitting (it's not a tubeless ready casing, so I guess the sealant had to fill a few small holes) they've been great.

Now I'm trying to figure out if the difference in my experience was purely due to rim choice, and if I go to a wider, lower profile rim I might be golden on the DH bike also, or if I just hit gnarlier terrain that much harder and faster on the DH bike, such that tubeless just can't cut it.

I had zero luck running tubeless on 823 rims on my DH bike. I tried a variety of tires from Michelin, Maxxis and Hutchinson, both UST and non-UST, always with Stans sealant. I suffered from constant sidewall flats, pinch flats in the tread, burping etc etc. In the end I just gave up and went back to tubes and was much happier.

In contrast, my new trail bike came with Schwalbe Evo casing tires set up tubeless on Flow EXs and, for their part, they've been excellent. Granted, the one flat I did get happened in a race-run, and it sucked, but on the whole I've had way fewer flats than I expect I would have had had I been running tubes. I just changed out the tires for Specialized Purgatory Grid on the rear and Butcher SX on the front and, aside from the front slowly leaking for a few days after fitting (it's not a tubeless ready casing, so I guess the sealant had to fill a few small holes) they've been great.

Now I'm trying to figure out if the difference in my experience was purely due to rim choice, and if I go to a wider, lower profile rim I might be golden on the DH bike also, or if I just hit gnarlier terrain that much harder and faster on the DH bike, such that tubeless just can't cut it.

Odd…. I used Mavic 823s for years tubeless on my DH bike. Zero issues.

I had the exact same problem as big-ted with 823's. No end of flats. I think the rim is just too tough and hard and it bites right through the casing when you bottom the rim. I never understood how pros could run low pressure and dent the rims without flatting tires. I have since gathered that it's because they use rims that are much softer so they yield.

Moving to carbon rims has virtually eliminated flats for me on the DH bike. Not quite but close on the trail bike with TR tires.

I had the exact same problem as big-ted with 823's. No end of flats. I think the rim is just too tough and hard and it bites right through the casing when you bottom the rim. I never understood how pros could run low pressure and dent the rims without flatting tires. I have since gathered that it's because they use rims that are much softer so they yield.

Moving to carbon rims has virtually eliminated flats for me on the DH bike. Not quite but close on the trail bike with TR tires.

Are the carbon rims not stiffer than the 823's? I would be very surprised if they weren't, but I have yet to ride some.

823's with UST Minions have been trouble free for me and I'm 260lbs on a good day, but may not ride nearly as aggressive.

I never understood how pros could run low pressure and dent the rims without flatting tires.

They don't run soft pressure unless they have really thick dh tubes. That's a lot of material to put holes through. If we are talking tubeless, they run 'em pretty hard out of necessity.

Maxxis UST DH are unreliable compared to just using their regular DH tires with sealant.

So your Maxxis DH tires aren't TR tires and you run them successfully in a ghetto setup with sealant?

I tried that a few years ago and was unsuccessful

If you are going tubeless for better traction @ higher pressures, the ability to run lower pressures, less chance of flatting, and/or because everyone else is doing it (i.e. weight savings is not your #1, #2, #3, or etc concern) my secret is Gorilla Tape.

Conveniently, Rona-Depot-Etc now sell it in a ~ rim-width so you don't have to tear it into the size you need.

It's cheap (compared to Stan's golden ribbon) @ ~$3 a roll, and it seals the rim better then Stan's tape (no need to inflate a tube to bed down the tape to prevent air seeping under the tape when seating)… the only negative is it is heavier then Stan's tape (I don't know how much because I don't give a shit).

On rims that can be a real PIA to bead up tires on (like my Velocity Blunt 35mm rims) the Gorilla tape works great.

I use Stan's sealant and I remove the valve cores when seating the tires (Leyzne MtB floor pump -- no air compressor). Worst case scenario some soap suds will help really stubborn tires (Schwalbe Super Gravity tires sometimes come pretty pretzeled and don't like to take a more convenient shape) slide into place.

No problem airing up Racing Ralphs (Snake Skin 2.2 [HTML_REMOVED] 2.35), Hans Dampf (Snake Skin 2.35), Magic Mary (Super Gravity 2.35), HRII, DHRII, Ikon (3c EXO 2.2 [HTML_REMOVED] 2.35), Purgatory, and GC.

… You can run a higher pressure and it will "feel" like lower pressure because of the way the tire can conform to the ground without a tube…

Coupled with a significant reduction in flats vs. when I ran tubes this is what I like about tubeless.

^I've heard the Schwalbe tires still have the shoulder treads tear off.

It was highly recommend that I use the Super Gravity version of Schwalbe's more aggressive tread for this reason -- never had the problem with Racing Ralphs (rear tire) // have had the issues with a Hans Dampf (front tire) -- as the side knob support is much better.

I'm on fresh rubber SG rubber (front tire) as of this week and I will let you know if I run into premature wear issues (front tire).

Thus far very happy with the tire -- excited to try it on some wet shore trails.

D

last year i was running minions with spank evo rims. Lots of burping. This year i switched to butchers with stan's flows. zero problems. So it seems to me as others have said some combo's work better than others.

for carbon rims, I had to scuff the carbon for the gorilla tape to stick properly.

Are the carbon rims not stiffer than the 823's? I would be very surprised if they weren't, but I have yet to ride some.

823's with UST Minions have been trouble free for me and I'm 260lbs on a good day, but may not ride nearly as aggressive.

The rims are noticeably less flexy. But for some reason I have had zero flats on the DH bike since running them. Have had flats on TR Exo tires though with 2 failures in the sidewall right at the bead after hard hits to the front and one hole through the casing on the rear. I run 28psi in the front and 38psi in the back on DH and Trail and I weigh 160. I used to run an 823 on the rear of my trail bike because I am tough on rims, and I would flat pretty often. I started using a DH tire for about a year on my trail bike before I went carbon rims, and have had just the one rear flat since.

So your Maxxis DH tires aren't TR tires and you run them successfully in a ghetto setup with sealant?

I tried that a few years ago and was unsuccessful

Correct. Regular DH tires and Stans. Probably have gone through 20 tires like this by now and never had a problem.

I'm on fresh rubber SG rubber (front tire) as of this week and I will let you know if I run into premature wear issues (front tire).

the shoulder knobs on my front sg magic mary started cracking within a few rides, but maintained enough integrity to last the summer (no lost knobs, but definitely reduced cornering bite). i saved the rear rock razor for races only, and after a half dozen events, it's done (though not surprising given the minimalist tread).

I been running tubes for a long time cuz non UST nevegals on 819's didn't really do tubeless well , decided to thro an old 2.35 highroller back on the 819 with no fluid, it airs up right away with just the shop pump except the valve stem was leaking a little so I glued it to the rim with tire patching cement and its working fine …gona stick with full UST

http://reviews.mtbr.com/video-bontrager-flash-charger-tubeless-pump

looks^^ like a cool idea for hard to seat tires