Door to trail riders - tell me how you've accommodated these crazy steep seat angles please

Posted by: craw

100%. I do the same thing. I don't have that many but I do have enough to let me know if I'm going in the right direction (more or less rise, more or less sweep, longer/shorter stem) then I can try something more extreme and buy a nice one.

I'm glad I am not the only one! ;-)

I can learn more about what I need in terms of bars/bike setup in 5mins of trying than 3hrs of reading/talking about it online. 

My GF might get annoyed by my parts hoard, but I've pulled out stems and bars that made her happier within minutes of her mentioning she was wanting a change/unhappy so that bought me a lot good will.

Posted by: Vikb

I've got a box of handle bars. It's great to be able to try one out or lend one to a friend so they can see if it'll work for them before they buy. But ya that costs a few $$. That said being able to quickly make a bike feel better is priceless and often I'll try 2 or 3 bars before I find the perfect one for that specific bike and even then sometimes after 6-12 months I find a different bar works better. The few times I came across a bar that was never going to work for me I've been able to sell/trade it and get most of my $$ back out of it.

I look at it like having spare brake pads or tires in the garage...an upfront cost, but eventually everything gets used on a bike.

This cracks me up 'cause I do the exact opposite - I find a bar that works for me and make the bike fit that.  My worn out hands and forearms don't like change when it comes to sweep and width.

Flat bar bikes = Salsa Salt flat.

Drop bar bikes = Nitto Noodle or Salsa Bell Lap

Posted by: tashi

This cracks me up 'cause I do the exact opposite - I find a bar that works for me and make the bike fit that.  My worn out hands and forearms don't like change when it comes to sweep and width.

I can totally see different people needing to prioritize different aspects of bike ergonomics. Once I put my saddle where it needs to be relative to the BB & rear wheel [my #1 priority] then my options are limited to make the bike fit given long bikes and short stems so using different bars to get the best bar position is kind of a necessity for me. In the past I would have swapped in a shorter stem as a next move, but these days I'm starting with a really short stem so there isn't a lot of room to maneuver. Going forward I'm going to ignore sizing recommendations even more than I do now and go smaller on frame size so I have some stem length adjustment to play with.

When you say "make the bike fit that" what's your typical process starting with a fresh build?

Choose roughly the right size frame, appropriate stem length to match the ETT from the previous similar bike. Ride. Play with stem length and height until it feels right for how I ride that particular bike.

Posted by: tashi

Choose roughly the right size frame, appropriate stem length to match the ETT from the previous similar bike. Ride. Play with stem length and height until it feels right for how I ride that particular bike.

What's your typical stem length?

50mm seems to work on my last couple mountain bikes.

I've got a pile of stems from 35-55 for science. Oddly I seem to end up running a different length on each bike.

Ever see the theory that stem should match fork offset? Wonder if there's anything to that whatsoever...

I think stem length vs. fork offset isn't that important. Stem length + bar setback vs. fork offset might be.

PVD -->  http://www.peterverdone.com/bars-stems-and-spacers/

PVD --> https://www.peterverdone.com/upsweep-isnt-a-thing/

Naked --> https://www.handbuiltbicyclenews.com/c23-bicycles/328-nakeds-framebuilder-notes-on-a-prototype

That said it's been years since I could run a 50mm stem even with back swept bars. And that's shooting for smaller frames than recommended [usually]. Next time I'll go even smaller and hopefully be able to run something like a 50mm stem because at least that way I'd have some adjustment range which would be nice. So far I pretty much just slam the shortest stem I can find ~31mm-35mm and the play with bars to get the best fit.

While different stem lengths result in different feel/steering/stability etc I think stem lengths, bar height and all aspects of geometry should be centered around a rider‘s body, proportions and fitness, not the other way round. 

Whatever fits and is comfortable sure seems better to me than simple x imposes y. 

It’s inconvenient as it means people actually have to try different setups and stuff, which can be fun or tedious depending on fancy.

The thing about cockpit is, there's the position relative to the front axle, which matters for handling, the position relative to the bottom bracket, which matters general fit and also handling, and position relative to the saddle, which matters for seated pedalling.

Sometimes the ideal relative positions for these are at odds with each other, which is part of the issue here. You compromise location in one aspect to improve another.

My opinion is, the better a bike fits you, the closer you can get to a cockpit setup that does not compromise any of the above.

That means:

- weight distribution feels natural both seated and standing, uphill and down.

- everything is compact enough to afford good range of motion and maneuverability, but roomy enough to afford stability and a wide base.

Some of it is personal preference, but for me, thats the balance I'm always looking for.

Posted by: Kenny

The thing about cockpit is, there's the position relative to the front axle, which matters for handling, the position relative to the bottom bracket, which matters general fit and also handling, and position relative to the saddle, which matters for seated pedalling.

Sometimes the ideal relative positions for these are at odds with each other, which is part of the issue here. You compromise location in one aspect to improve another.

My opinion is, the better a bike fits you, the closer you can get to a cockpit setup that does not compromise any of the above.

That means:

- weight distribution feels natural both seated and standing, uphill and down.

- everything is compact enough to afford good range of motion and maneuverability, but roomy enough to afford stability and a wide base.

Some of it is personal preference, but for me, thats the balance I'm always looking for.

Really well stated.

I ride a 6 or 7 year old Chromag that has near perfect geometry for me (though I might get an angle-set to slacken hta by a degree.)  I'm almost scared to buy a new bike.  The latest Chromag geo is so different from my era.  If I do go for a new Chromag though it's the Surface bikepacking one.  That thing is freaking sick.

One issue I am having on longer rides or ones with a ton of descending is sore hands and wrists.  I definitely need to replace the 8 degree sweep bar with something with more backsweep.

11 degree bar worked for me and my hand and wrist issues. Salsa makes a pretty cheap version of the Slat Flat, 11degrees and 800mm wide.

Posted by: tashi

11 degree bar worked for me and my hand and wrist issues. Salsa makes a pretty cheap version of the Slat Flat, 11degrees and 800mm wide.

Thanks.  Will check out for sure.  That just might be what does the trick.  Any LBS that carry Salsa stuff?