Posted by: joseph-crabtree
On rides to the trail I'll sometimes drop my saddle about 5mm and slide back a bit to take some pressure off my hand
Good tip thanks!
Posted by: joseph-crabtree
On rides to the trail I'll sometimes drop my saddle about 5mm and slide back a bit to take some pressure off my hand
Good tip thanks!
Posted by: geraldooka
Unfortunately most saddles and rails are biased in the other direction, the longest rail saddle I have which I got to help with this issue is the Ergon and they are long but towards the front which ultimately doesn’t actually allow the saddle to be pushed much further back than my fave WTB Pure which has tiny rails.
Saddle rail room is sort of useful, but you can't really benefit that much in terms of slackening out a steep STA because if you pull the saddle all the way back on long rails you will bend and then break them due to the leverage of that geometry. However, a 1' set back dropper plus a bit of saddle movement rearward [say 10-15mm rear of centre] adds up. If 25mm+15mm = 40mm isn't enough to make you comfortable then the bike in question is just not a reasonable fit for you. When steep STAs first started to be a thing I pretty much figured I could adjust my way to happiness, but now there are bikes where I look at the STA and it's just a hard nope.
Posted by: geraldooka
Posted by: craw
I'm 6'6" and I totally loved steep seat tubes right away. What a relief! Prior to my first proper steep seat angle bike I owned a slew of traditional bikes ending with an Evil Wreckoning, which is what cemented for me just how incredibly myopic and production-efficiency-focused most bike designers are. You'd think they'd met a tall person.
If the rear center of a bike isn't going to get longer on bigger sizes then taller riders will 100% of the time they're at full extension be in a shitty position (unless they have very long femurs). Turns out most companies still haven't figured this out and you can generally see this as most bikes are optimized for someone who's a 170lb medium, and everyone else gets to live with varying degrees of compromise.
For a straight up-straight down FS bike I'm at around 79 and this is good for climbing and descending but for more of a trail bike I think 77-78 would be good.
On my gravel bike I'm on 73 and it's totally fine.
On my progressive hardtail 75-76 turns out to be the good number for me.I'm so glad that bikes have evolved. I'm also glad there are lots of companies not going quite as extreme as my G1. Lots of people have lots of different needs and that's what these companies should always have recognized. Not everyone should be on dual 29" wheels, wide handlebars, using heavy inserts, or loving very steep seat angles and we shouldn't be selling these stories as universal solutions.
I totally get this but I would argue that they haven’t evolved in regards to seat angle just shifted in the opposite direction. Much like variable length chain stays I think true evolution or rather innovation would be understanding that maintaining the same seat angle across sizes is not ideal. Someone with a 36” inseam will have their seat arrive much further back than someone with a 30” inseam. Putting them both on a bike with a 78deg seat angle is not going to be ideal…
100%. I'm pretty sure that's what I am advocating for: seat tube angle should vary by size, along with rear center length, head tube length and everything else. When I say those numbers are fine I mean FINE FOR ME. I didn't think I needed to be so explicit.
Every size should be treated as its own thing with its own requirements, not some poorly scaled version of a medium. If frames now cost $4k+ this is what we should expect.
Posted by: joseph-crabtree
On rides to the trail I'll sometimes drop my saddle about 5mm and slide back a bit to take some pressure off my hand
So much good info in here, you guys are wise beyond your years. Actually most of us are probably old AF by now so maybe not.
I like /\ that tip above. Drop saddle couple mm's slide back couple inches.
I used to meticulously set up my bikes at home in my flat neighborhood, take a flat lap around the block, tinker some more till it was perfect to the mm. And then mostly suffer on the ratchet climb up the hill, which made up most of my ride time anyhow. But the flat commute there was all butterflies and rainbows and blissful smiles.
Now my bike feels like some kind of ill fitting torture device on the flats, with me constantly sliding around trying to make it less awful. But it sails up the steep singletrack climbs relative to the old setup. With the steep seat angle comfort is night and day better for me climbing now- both on long grinds and short punchy efforts, times are lower, and previously iffy technical uphill sections are cleaned consistently.
I do wish the wheelbase was a smidge shorter for the descents, but man it's pretty damn close now to the ideal I've been chasing all these years for ratchet-up and plunge-down riding.
The torture fest to the trailhead will continue until morale improves.
5'8"on a medium with shortish legs I always used to think having weight rearward was important for traction or also for not going over the bars but with these last 2 enduro bikes it feels like being centered is more important also getting over that front wheel and i don't worry about going over the bars anymore, i likethe new design
Hmm, that actually doesn't look terrible. Machined in Whistler. Looks like a solution that could turn into a trend.
But then again steep SA's on long flat MTB rides are type 2 fun, and is it really an MTB ride without having to block out the screaming message from your brain that you're surely dying?
Steep seat angles are definitely not for everyone. Luckily you have plenty of data, experience/preference and lots of geometry info so now you can shop accordingly for the perfect setup.
Have you tried a higher rise bar and a shorter stem? That should get you sitting more up right and take pressure off your hands.
I'm tall with long legs and I don't want steep STAs or long CS. Currently I have to hunt around for a frame that works and what passes for "modern" or "cutting edge" isn't of interest. I think the innovation that will solve a lot of these problems is rapid custom-ish manufacturing along the lines of Robot/Atherton Bikes when it becomes more common/affordable. If we can select our geo criteria from a range of values and then a frame gets built quickly at a reasonable [what passes for reasonable in the MTB world anyways] without going the full custom route that will be great. Everyone can get what they want....more or less.
Posted by: Hepcat
Hmm, that actually doesn't look terrible. Machined in Whistler. Looks like a solution that could turn into a trend.
But then again steep SA's on long flat MTB rides are type 2 fun, and is it really an MTB ride without having to block out the screaming message from your brain that you're surely dying?
I imagine that device would increase the torture level on flat riding or at least I can’t see how it would help. And you totally get what I’m referring too. Problem is with my schedule it 1.5hours of torture for 1.5hours of fun that ratio not ideal.
Posted by: heathen
Have you tried a higher rise bar and a shorter stem? That should get you sitting more up right and take pressure off your hands.
I have and did like the trade off on trail but I’m gonna give it another go. Thanks for the tip!
100%. I'm pretty sure that's what I am advocating for: seat tube angle should vary by size, along with rear center length, head tube length and everything else. When I say those numbers are fine I mean FINE FOR ME. I didn't think I needed to be so explicit.
Every size should be treated as its own thing with its own requirements, not some poorly scaled version of a medium. If frames now cost $4k+ this is what we should expect.
Sounds like we agree on that :)
Posted by: XXX_er
5'8"on a medium with shortish legs I always used to think having weight rearward was important for traction or also for not going over the bars but with these last 2 enduro bikes it feels like being centered is more important also getting over that front wheel and i don't worry about going over the bars anymore, i likethe new design
I generally like modern bike geo too on trail.
My reason for this post it for those that are riding to trails on flat terrain (or just ride flat terrain period) and are not happy with the new steep seat angles and how they may mitigating the issue.
Posted bulb
I think the innovation that will solve a lot of these problems is rapid custom-ish manufacturing along the lines of Robot/Atherton Bikes when it becomes more common/affordable. If we can select our geo criteria from a range of values and then a frame gets built quickly at a reasonable [what passes for reasonable in the MTB world anyways] without going the full custom route that will be great. Everyone can get what they want....more or less.
Agreed assuming one knows what they want or has a bike they love they can measure off of.
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