Crazy Pills

Kinda related to this discussion…

http://cyclingiq.com/2011/11/08/vertical-limit-the-long-and-short-of-bicycle-manufacturing/

That was a great series.

Ask JM at YT yourself he,s the one who told me when I was testing out a bike .

He's on crack. No way YT is ahead or Trek, Specialized or Giant even though spec quite a bit of Shimano. Not even remotely close.

Kinda related to this discussion…

http://cyclingiq.com/2011/11/08/vertical-limit-the-long-and-short-of-bicycle-manufacturing/

interesting write up

I like this statement

" If all bicycle factories are operating out of Taiwan, they theoretically have same or similar input costs."

He's on crack. No way YT is ahead or Trek, Specialized or Giant even though spec quite a bit of Shimano. Not even remotely close.

He maybe , but when you look at the 3 big companies you mention , they spec a lot of their bikes with their own HOUSE !!! brand parts . So they are not buying stems , bars , saddles and seat posts, and such for most of their models as it,s a house spec item .

My $6000 Kona came with a Kona brand stem perfect example .

Speaking of crazy… the prices of these new norcos are insane IMO.

I'm comparing the new Giant Trance Advanced 2 to the new Norco Range C7.3.. $1300 difference?! From what I can see they're basically the same level of parts..and you get carbon wheels on the trance!

$5599 for their base mode carbon bike makes Santa Cruz look cheap to me!

Speaking of crazy… the prices of these new norcos are insane IMO.

I'm comparing the new Giant Trance Advanced 2 to the new Norco Range C7.3.. $1300 difference?! From what I can see they're basically the same level of parts..and you get carbon wheels on the trance!

$5599 for their base mode carbon bike makes Santa Cruz look cheap to me!

I agree… only a couple of years a go the price of the 7.3 was the price of their top model. I guess YT hasn't changed the pricing game yet.

Giant has been providing good value for a while (again relative to some other mftrs). I was very tempted by their 2017 Trance Adv 1 as it checked a number of boxes for me and having a number of Giant bikes (Trance [HTML_REMOVED] Reign) over the last 6-7 years I know how they ride and I like them.

A couple of things pushed me away from pulling the trigger on the Giant front. Suspension spec didn't work for me with the Fox 34 and the Fox Float. Have had similar in the past and was not impressed. A 36 Talas RC2 and X2 or DB Inline (new [IL] would have likely sealed the deal and I would be riding it now. The second was the seat angle at 73 deg. This would have been a little slacker once I put a 160mm fork on the bike. As much as my current Trance SX is an excellent climber on tech terrain, you really need to move forward with the seatpost extended and the seat so far back. I am on a medium, I can only imagine those on large or XL.

So I went looking at bikes that had a similar spec and narrowed down to a Warden or a Bronson. I found a great deal on a Bronson carbon, so that is what I am riding now. Would I pay full pop for the bike. No freakin way. Is it nice, yes most certainly. Is it worth 1 1/2 time the Trance Adv 1, no.

There are still choices out there in getting a top end bike without paying the top price. As you narrow down the list by filtering with individual preferences, you sometimes end up with a fairly short list. Prices could always be better, no matter what choice you end up with.

Why is the American Glory 0 priced at $8,375 USD? It looks to be the same as the Canuckistan one..

https://www.giant-bicycles.com/us/glory-advanced-0

Giant seems to have decided that us Canadian folk shouldn't get hammered by the poor USDCAD it seems. I actually didn't believe a Giant dealer when he showed me the Trance Advanced 1 for $4999CAD last fall, I was sure that had to be a USD price. Hilarious that the Glory is more expensive in USD than CAD somehow.

Giant has been providing good value for a while (again relative to some other mftrs). I was very tempted by their 2017 Trance Adv 1 as it checked a number of boxes for me and having a number of Giant bikes (Trance [HTML_REMOVED] Reign) over the last 6-7 years I know how they ride and I like them.

A couple of things pushed me away from pulling the trigger on the Giant front. Suspension spec didn't work for me with the Fox 34 and the Fox Float. Have had similar in the past and was not impressed. A 36 Talas RC2 and X2 or DB Inline (new [IL] would have likely sealed the deal and I would be riding it now. The second was the seat angle at 73 deg. This would have been a little slacker once I put a 160mm fork on the bike. As much as my current Trance SX is an excellent climber on tech terrain, you really need to move forward with the seatpost extended and the seat so far back. I am on a medium, I can only imagine those on large or XL.

The Sight/Range pricing was a non-starter for me which sucks as I love my Aurum.

I'm a Fox/Shimano guy so the Trance would fit me build wise except like you I prefer a 36 and beefier shock as I'm heavy. I'm going to at least sit on one if not demo it this weekend but I suspect I will be ordering the YT as it has slightly better geo for what I want (slightly slacker HTA, steeper STA and longer reach). Will see how I get along with the Pike/RS Deluxe shock.

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A couple of things pushed me away from pulling the trigger on the Giant front. Suspension spec didn't work for me with the Fox 34 and the Fox Float. Have had similar in the past and was not impressed. A 36 Talas RC2 and X2 or DB Inline (new [IL] would have likely sealed the deal and I would be riding it now. The second was the seat angle at 73 deg. This would have been a little slacker once I put a 160mm fork on the bike. As much as my current Trance SX is an excellent climber on tech terrain, you really need to move forward with the seatpost extended and the seat so far back. I am on a medium, I can only imagine those on large or XL.

Didn't you just describe a Reign Adv 1?

Didn't you just describe a Reign Adv 1?

No I had purchased a Reign Alu 1, in the fall. Really wanted to like the bike and on paper it was right, not to mention all the positive reviews. However, it never felt right to me on the trail.

It had a 810 low-riser (almost flat it seemed), so I put on my 750-760 (need to measure) high-rise bars either 30mm or 35mm rise, which helped the bike feel better, but it was not enough.

Even with 170mm cranks on the bike (I normally run 175mm), I was tagging pedals way more whether pedaling or a few times even descending. The low BB was catching on roll-over type moves on trails I know where that is not an issue on my Trance. The killer for me was it felt slower and sluggish on tighter tech trails.

The positive was that on trails were I could ride faster you could really feel how the bike was so strong in the corner, like it was on rails as everyone says, but it's true. Whether is was simply comfort of knowing my old bike or that the Reign just didn't suit my riding style I ended up selling it.

The Bronson after only 3 rides feels much more comfortable, still might change the handlebar to something with more rise and slightly narrower. Twice on the last ride I pulled up on the front end to loft the front wheels over roots / rocks like I would on the Trance and surprised myself as the front end is easier to lift on the Bronson. Maybe there is hope that I can learn to manual on this bike.

Then I come back to my feeling that the major bike companies got a little soft.

Some of them, for sure. But the ones that currently offer online sales at full retail prices are smart. Theyre making huge margins on every online sale, theyre still kinda supporting retailers and distributors, and theyre gradually building distribution systems to handle the inevitable market shift to direct sales.

the ones that arent doing this are losing ground every day to lean hungry companies like yt.

Giant seems to have decided that us Canadian folk shouldn't get hammered by the poor USDCAD it seems. I actually didn't believe a Giant dealer when he showed me the Trance Advanced 1 for $4999CAD last fall, I was sure that had to be a USD price. Hilarious that the Glory is more expensive in USD than CAD somehow.

The Sight/Range pricing was a non-starter for me which sucks as I love my Aurum.

I'm a Fox/Shimano guy so the Trance would fit me build wise except like you I prefer a 36 and beefier shock as I'm heavy. I'm going to at least sit on one if not demo it this weekend but I suspect I will be ordering the YT as it has slightly better geo for what I want (slightly slacker HTA, steeper STA and longer reach). Will see how I get along with the Pike/RS Deluxe shock.

As long as they fixed the wallowing issues that I found the last generation trances had, I could not put enough pressure into the shock. They did change the leverage ratio…so that should help. Now if they would come out with a new 29er Trance X…lol.

As long as they fixed the wallowing issues that I found the last generation trances had, I could not put enough pressure into the shock. They did change the leverage ratio…so that should help. Now if they would come out with a new 29er Trance X…lol.

I am surprised they have not entered the more aggressive 29" market yet . Same deal with Kona , but I guess they will be next .