Commencal vs Evil

any reports on commencal frame durability over the past few years? I had a meta 6 is 2008, loved the way it rode, but had 2 frames crack in rapid succession, with long waits for warranty replacements in between….put a big damper on an otherwise enjoyable bike

yes, 2008 was a bad year. I did my homework before sinking the cash into one and had a really good one-on-one with a couple strong Spanish riders that had been on the new linkage for over a year riding daily and hard… all with positive response. To be fair, even their older linkage was super durable once they were into the 2009 model year and a new factory. Just that older linkage was a bit flexy, so they pursued a more stout design and better leverage rate.

As for service, I think that is very valid. I do all my own maintenance, but yes, warranty service is the untested question, which I hope I won't have to test. That said, my frame arrived missing a cable guide for the internal routed dropper post cable. I emailed the dealer that I bought from and within 3 days I had a new one (I'm guessing it fell out of the box en route via the box handle). I also had a question about the bb spacing and was answered within 24 hours, even with time change to Europe. So I hope that level of service will be there if I have any issues.

I have no comment on Evil, except that they are dead sexy but too mysterious and pricey for me.

yes, 2008 was a bad year. I did my homework before sinking the cash into one and had a really good one-on-one with a couple strong Spanish riders that had been on the new linkage for over a year riding daily and hard… all with positive response. To be fair, even their older linkage was super durable once they were into the 2009 model year and a new factory. Just that older linkage was a bit flexy, so they pursued a more stout design and better leverage rate.

As for service, I think that is very valid. I do all my own maintenance, but yes, warranty service is the untested question, which I hope I won't have to test. That said, my frame arrived missing a cable guide for the internal routed dropper post cable. I emailed the dealer that I bought from and within 3 days I had a new one (I'm guessing it fell out of the box en route via the box handle). I also had a question about the bb spacing and was answered within 24 hours, even with time change to Europe. So I hope that level of service will be there if I have any issues.

I have no comment on Evil, except that they are dead sexy but too mysterious and pricey for me.

good to hear that the durability issue has been addressed, although I must say hard to beat Giant's warranty service, found a crack on my two year old reign, had an RA within a day of contacting my dealer and a new frame in my hands within 3 days.

Never owned or ridden an Evil but I've inspected a couple of the carbon Undeads at a local shop… one had cracking near one of the linkages… apparently this was supposed to be a crack in the paint but it propogated over a fair area. And that linkage has some tiny bearings that don't seem to last long, so maintenance might be more intensive. They are beatiful looking frames, but still lots of BUTS.

I've also dealt with the Commencal distributor in Vegas who also does BOS suspension for N.A…. good guy who was responsive to my questions and shipped my product quickly if that matters.

My random thoughts.

I would not even consider the commencal. There are so many good options out these days, I'd go with a company that can take care of you if/when you have issues, and supports their bikes for more than 2 seasons. The industry is getting kind of ridiculous with planned obsolescence, and not supporting replacement parts for high end product more than 2 seasons, Fox.

Kevin is a super nice guy. Evil had their issues with Pacific, the taiwanese factory that screwed up their alu Revolts (this company also fucked Corsair).
They are now working with Hodaka, which is one of the larger players in carbon bikes these days. I was actually pretty impressed that he gave new Undeads to all of the old Revolt customers. In many ways, it would have made more sense business wise, to fold the Evil name, cut losses, and build hype for new company.

On to the actual bike. Uprising is sexy looking. However… it's pretty heavy for a carbon bike. And it only takes 26" wheels. In 2 years, you are not going to be able to buy high end 26" product. I.E., if you want a new fork, you will be looking used. I would not buy a 26" bike these days, unless it was slightly used and a smoking deal. That's just me. That is not because I think 650b is superior in every way shape and form, far from it. The ride differences are minor. This is purely for resale value, and availability of decent parts in the future.

I personally would be looking Transition or Kona, mostly because they are local, and I know they support their product.

In 2 years, you are not going to be able to buy high end 26" product. I.E., if you want a new fork, you will be looking used. I would not buy a 26" bike these days, unless it was slightly used and a smoking deal. That's just me. That is not because I think 650b is superior in every way shape and form, far from it. The ride differences are minor. This is purely for resale value, and availability of decent parts in the future.

im not sure i beleive 26" wheels are going anywere..i guess we'll see if the new larger hoops are a fad or a real replacement in a few years.

but i would count out 26" wheel as a viable market just yet. or at all.

Of course you will still be able to buy replacement rims and tires and such. You can still get square taper bottom brackets, 27" wheels, canti brakes. Can you buy "high end" old tech? No, just basic replacement parts. You are going to be able to get mavic rims and maxxis tires in 26" for quite some time. Not the new and improved stuff tho.

New forks? I would not hold my breath. 26" is going away, whether you like it or not.

Couple of my riding buddies are product managers…. 26" high end product is going away…. at least out of the Rockshox and Fox lines. There is big push to move DH product in that direction as well.

The market is driven by people who flip bikes every season or two. Unless people stop buying product that is not supported in 2 seasons (FOX), I don't think the trend will change.

New forks? I would not hold my breath. 26" is going away, whether you like it or not.

What year do you think high end 26 inch wheel options will cease to exist?

What year do you think high end 26 inch wheel options will cease to exist?

It's already happening. Of course, you'll probably be able to build something up on your own, but I know for next year there are some high end wheel offerings only coming in 650b and 29. And if you ask the company they say "We don't sell enough 26 any more to justify the investment."

Same thing about 20mm axles.

^Yep. I think you will be able to get decent Sun, Mavic, and stans rims for some time to come. High end complete wheels? Nope. The next gen of relatively reasonably priced carbon rims from companies you have actually heard of? Nope.

Tires, same deal, selection will decrease over time, no "new" product.

Forks are the big one. I would guess by 2015, Fox will not offer 26" product, period. And rockshox will have maybe recon/domain level option.
And, OF COURSE, you won't be able to buy the replacement bladders and seals and whatnot you need to keep your existing $900 high end fork running. If I owned a Fox 36 rc2, I would want to kill someone.

My guess is that this season, 650b mania will fully take hold. Existing 26" product will be seen as old news, and blown out for super cheap. If you plan on riding a 26" bike for a while, stock up then. After it's gone, it's gone.

^Yep. I think you will be able to get decent Sun, Mavic, and stans rims for some time to come. High end complete wheels? Nope. The next gen of relatively reasonably priced carbon rims from companies you have actually heard of? Nope.

Tires, same deal, selection will decrease over time, no "new" product.

Forks are the big one. I would guess by 2015, Fox will not offer 26" product, period. And rockshox will have maybe recon/domain level option.
And, OF COURSE, you won't be able to buy the replacement bladders and seals and whatnot you need to keep your existing $900 high end fork running. If I owned a Fox 36 rc2, I would want to kill someone.

My guess is that this season, 650b mania will fully take hold. Existing 26" product will be seen as old news, and blown out for super cheap. If you plan on riding a 26" bike for a while, stock up then. After it's gone, it's gone.

Wow, that's a bold prediction.

^Yep. I think you will be able to get decent Sun, Mavic, and stans rims for some time to come. High end complete wheels? Nope. The next gen of relatively reasonably priced carbon rims from companies you have actually heard of? Nope.

Tires, same deal, selection will decrease over time, no "new" product.

Forks are the big one. I would guess by 2015, Fox will not offer 26" product, period. And rockshox will have maybe recon/domain level option.
And, OF COURSE, you won't be able to buy the replacement bladders and seals and whatnot you need to keep your existing $900 high end fork running. If I owned a Fox 36 rc2, I would want to kill someone.

My guess is that this season, 650b mania will fully take hold. Existing 26" product will be seen as old news, and blown out for super cheap. If you plan on riding a 26" bike for a while, stock up then. After it's gone, it's gone.

i guess im on the other side then…

i'll continue to buy 26" product/bikes until shops tell me otherwise as to its not being available..

i just dont see it going away, if anything i'd be more inclined to seeing the larger hoop wheel as a fad that pass' within 3-4 years and the market returns to 26" bikes/wheels

i remember when 24" wheels were the predicted 26" wheel killer…

Good times. I just posted in another thread about how running a straight 1.5" steerer fork can be a PITA. It's on the verge of extinction.

I'm still holding out on my 9spd drive train. They'll be at 13 speed cassettes by the time I switch from Sram X.O. And they'll be at 15 speed cassettes by the time YOU switch from Grip Shift.

i guess im on the other side then…

i'll continue to buy 26" product/bikes until shops tell me otherwise as to its not being available..

i just dont see it going away, if anything i'd be more inclined to seeing the larger hoop wheel as a fad that pass' within 3-4 years and the market returns to 26" bikes/wheels

i remember when 24" wheels were the predicted 26" wheel killer…

My random thoughts.

I would not even consider the commencal. There are so many good options out these days, I'd go with a company that can take care of you if/when you have issues, and supports their bikes for more than 2 seasons. The industry is getting kind of ridiculous with planned obsolescence, and not supporting replacement parts for high end product more than 2 seasons, Fox.

Planned obsolescence; one of the reasons I stick with Ibis (or if I do switch perhaps Santa Cruz). I'm on year 3 of my Mojo HD. Earlier in the year I emailed Ibis on the new HDR, mentioned I was a bit on the fence with the 650b thing, and didn't really want to drop 2500 on a new frame just because the market is going that way. What I didn't expect was a suggestion to do what some of the guys in the company were doing for the last couple of years…just do a conversion. Because I was already riding the 140mm mode, They steered me towards Burgtech for shock offset bushings, and mentioned that it should give me the same geometry and BB as the HDR (actually a few mm lower and half a degree slacker). Problem solved! How cool is that? "Yeah don't buy this shiny new frame, just throw some tweaks to the old one and you should be good to go" LOL

now on companies selling the farm for 650b…I have a friend on a Norco Shinobi. Stripped out his derailleur hanger. Called Norco….and yah, they don't have any replacements. GOOD GRIEF :|

now on companies selling the farm for 650b…I have a friend on a Norco Shinobi. Stripped out his derailleur hanger. Called Norco….and yah, they don't have any replacements. GOOD GRIEF :|

that's ridiculous

i tore the hanger on my banshee prime in half last weekend. on a hunch, tried replacing it with a spare from my v1 rune: bingo

built in resilience [HTML_REMOVED] planned obsolescence