had no idea there was a conventional iteration. kinda like that one better, actually (not 100% sold on supre). should be a neat build.
Canadian nicolai / geometron owners - spares?
I'm a little torn on the Supre. I love weird clever new stuff. I love that it's all Canadian-made by a young mad scientist on the Sunshine Coast. I love that it solves a lot the derailleur system's issues and gearboxes' as well. Obviously it doesn't solve everything but it sure manages to cover a lot in a very practical package. I really want it to take off. It's got so much potential.
i've similar sentiments. no denying cedric's ingenuity, & to bring a truly novel drivetrain to production in such a short timeframe, with relatively limited resources is an impressive feat - i wish him well. but as effective this specific implementation may be, there's just a lot stacked against this becoming a sustainable alternative. lots of proprietary bits is certainly one (big) thing, but requiring a dedicated frame build with severe restriction of suspension layout / kinematics is not a route to mainstream adoption. alas, time will tell.
what really gets me excited these days is what trinity / williams racing are up to. rad mech in a box implementation, as well as a platform with a more or less universal drivetrain cradle that will accommodate their own box, as well as pinion, effigear, and conventional drivetrains - on the same bike. brilliant stuff.
I wish I was closer to being ready to commit to one of these solutions but for now a high single pivot with the right properties will do me nicely. The Nucleon is what I've been asking for for years: an updated Wreckoning with proper fit and Nicolai construction. That's about as proprietary as I'm willing to go right now, which is as much as I've ever been: fancy frame with conventional high end stuff for everything else.
Enjoy the new bike. I know intellectually a Geometron/Nicholai wouldn't be the right bike for me, but emotionally I still want one. A lot of FOMO over here. ;-)
Posted by: xy9ine
had no idea there was a conventional iteration. kinda like that one better, actually (not 100% sold on supre). should be a neat build.
It popped up kinda hidden on Nicolai site a few months back. Only a 3d rendering of it. I think it's a selectable option in the N16 build form
Posted by: xy9ine
i've similar sentiments. no denying cedric's ingenuity, & to bring a truly novel drivetrain to production in such a short timeframe, with relatively limited resources is an impressive feat - i wish him well. but as effective this specific implementation may be, there's just a lot stacked against this becoming a sustainable alternative. lots of proprietary bits is certainly one (big) thing, but requiring a dedicated frame build with severe restriction of suspension layout / kinematics is not a route to mainstream adoption. alas, time will tell.
what really gets me excited these days is what trinity / williams racing are up to. rad mech in a box implementation, as well as a platform with a more or less universal drivetrain cradle that will accommodate their own box, as well as pinion, effigear, and conventional drivetrains - on the same bike. brilliant stuff.
Yeah that Trinity frame is straight fire! Single speed, pinion, derailleur in a box. Really interesting. Could likely get plates for an effigear.
Posted by: craw
I wish I was closer to being ready to commit to one of these solutions but for now a high single pivot with the right properties will do me nicely. The Nucleon is what I've been asking for for years: an updated Wreckoning with proper fit and Nicolai construction. That's about as proprietary as I'm willing to go right now, which is as much as I've ever been: fancy frame with conventional high end stuff for everything else.
I knew you were going with a 16 😂 just didn't know which frame style of it.
It's funny that with the N16 Supre the biggest hang up I have with it is the 157 axle; which oddly enough isn't as big a hang up with the Trinity frame. I have a set of WA1 mullet rims ready to get laced up once I decide on axle spacing 🤦♀️
What rear travel did you decide on?
Posted by: Vikb
Enjoy the new bike. I know intellectually a Geometron/Nicholai wouldn't be the right bike for me, but emotionally I still want one. A lot of FOMO over here. ;-)
I'm less convinced it would be wrong for me, but yes, the desire is very strong.
*further peruses the nicolai catalog* - also kinda digging the saturn 14st; as a "water bottle mount is non-negotiable" kinda guy, this bike is fully box ticking.
Posted by: xy9ine
*further peruses the nicolai catalog* - also kinda digging the saturn 14st; as a "water bottle mount is non-negotiable" kinda guy, this bike is fully box ticking.
That's the one.
Posted by: velocipedestrian
Posted by: xy9ine
*further peruses the nicolai catalog* - also kinda digging the saturn 14st; as a "water bottle mount is non-negotiable" kinda guy, this bike is fully box ticking.
That's the one.
The Saturn 16 was the bike I was originally going to get - basically to swap out of my G1 into something a little steeper, a little peppier that has a water bottle. The Nucleon will apparently have a water bottle but it will mount on some kind of modular removable system.
Along similar lines I’ve been tempted to see how much it would cost to get a custom front triangle for my G1 that’s around 2 degrees steeper in the HT, 5 or 10 mm taller in the HT, and 10 mm shorter in reach. And maybe with a 5 mm taller BB.
Right now I’m full 29er in the steepest HT/tallest BB mutator configuration and I can’t see going any lower or slacker, so having more useful range of mutator possibilities would be nice. I have a ton of spacers under my stem too so getting some room back there with a taller HT would IMO look better. I’d need to do some trig to make sure my effective reach to the bars wouldn’t get longer by making the HA steeper, but I figure roughly 10 mm shorter measured reach (or TT) would be about right.
Posted by: mrkdwrds
Along similar lines I’ve been tempted to see how much it would cost to get a custom front triangle for my G1 that’s around 2 degrees steeper in the HT, 5 or 10 mm taller in the HT, and 10 mm shorter in reach. And maybe with a 5 mm taller BB.
Right now I’m full 29er in the steepest HT/tallest BB mutator configuration and I can’t see going any lower or slacker, so having more useful range of mutator possibilities would be nice. I have a ton of spacers under my stem too so getting some room back there with a taller HT would IMO look better. I’d need to do some trig to make sure my effective reach to the bars wouldn’t get longer by making the HA steeper, but I figure roughly 10 mm shorter measured reach (or TT) would be about right.
You could try an angleset. I've actually got one from steepening up my G16; sell it to you crazy cheap. I don't need it and I'd be happy to see it go to good use.
The Nucleon and Saturn 16 have revised geometry that's less extreme. I wanted that from my G1 as well: slightly shorter WB and steeper HTA (my XL was 1355 and 62.5). Though I liked that it had a short top tube despite the long reach (659 ETT, 535 reach). I'm going to set up the Nucleon to refine all of that: 1335 WB, 64' HA, 78' ESTA, 535 reach but 667 ETT and a 150mm headtube. The the rearward axle path means the wheelbase should be shorter at sag but getting to G1 lengths under compression. It was a series of small improvements that had me switch from the G16 to the G1, and now I'm doing that again.
Last edited by: craw on Jan. 31, 2023, 6:40 a.m., edited 1 time in total.
Posted by: craw
Posted by: mrkdwrds
Along similar lines I’ve been tempted to see how much it would cost to get a custom front triangle for my G1 that’s around 2 degrees steeper in the HT, 5 or 10 mm taller in the HT, and 10 mm shorter in reach. And maybe with a 5 mm taller BB.
Right now I’m full 29er in the steepest HT/tallest BB mutator configuration and I can’t see going any lower or slacker, so having more useful range of mutator possibilities would be nice. I have a ton of spacers under my stem too so getting some room back there with a taller HT would IMO look better. I’d need to do some trig to make sure my effective reach to the bars wouldn’t get longer by making the HA steeper, but I figure roughly 10 mm shorter measured reach (or TT) would be about right.
You could try an angleset. I've actually got one from steepening up my G16; sell it to you crazy cheap. I don't need it and I'd be happy to see it go to good use.
The Nucleon and Saturn 16 have revised geometry that's less extreme. I wanted that from my G1 as well: slightly shorter WB and steeper HTA (my XL was 1355 and 62.5). Though I liked that it had a short top tube despite the long reach (659 ETT, 535 reach). I'm going to set up the Nucleon to refine all of that: 1335 WB, 64' HA, 78' ESTA, 535 reach but 667 ETT and a 150mm headtube. The the rearward axle path means the wheelbase should be shorter at sag but getting to G1 lengths under compression. It was a series of small improvements that had me switch from the G16 to the G1, and now I'm doing that again.
Angleset is a good idea - I have always thought of them for making bikes slacker so hadn't considered for the G1. I'd take it off your hands but have a size L with 130mm head tube so would need a different model for mine.
Posted by: mrkdwrds
Posted by: craw
Posted by: mrkdwrds
Along similar lines I’ve been tempted to see how much it would cost to get a custom front triangle for my G1 that’s around 2 degrees steeper in the HT, 5 or 10 mm taller in the HT, and 10 mm shorter in reach. And maybe with a 5 mm taller BB.
Right now I’m full 29er in the steepest HT/tallest BB mutator configuration and I can’t see going any lower or slacker, so having more useful range of mutator possibilities would be nice. I have a ton of spacers under my stem too so getting some room back there with a taller HT would IMO look better. I’d need to do some trig to make sure my effective reach to the bars wouldn’t get longer by making the HA steeper, but I figure roughly 10 mm shorter measured reach (or TT) would be about right.
You could try an angleset. I've actually got one from steepening up my G16; sell it to you crazy cheap. I don't need it and I'd be happy to see it go to good use.
The Nucleon and Saturn 16 have revised geometry that's less extreme. I wanted that from my G1 as well: slightly shorter WB and steeper HTA (my XL was 1355 and 62.5). Though I liked that it had a short top tube despite the long reach (659 ETT, 535 reach). I'm going to set up the Nucleon to refine all of that: 1335 WB, 64' HA, 78' ESTA, 535 reach but 667 ETT and a 150mm headtube. The the rearward axle path means the wheelbase should be shorter at sag but getting to G1 lengths under compression. It was a series of small improvements that had me switch from the G16 to the G1, and now I'm doing that again.
Angleset is a good idea - I have always thought of them for making bikes slacker so hadn't considered for the G1. I'd take it off your hands but have a size L with 130mm head tube so would need a different model for mine.
Quote from the guy at Works Components:
You can use the headset for a shorter HTL - what you would see is a larger change in head angle as a result.
So long as the new user is aware then going right down to a 110mm HT would not cause too much of an issue, you may just see slightly accelerated bearing wear in use
Posted by: xy9ine
*further peruses the nicolai catalog* - also kinda digging the saturn 14st; as a "water bottle mount is non-negotiable" kinda guy, this bike is fully box ticking.
S14 has Torsion bars so a coil shock or even FLOAT X2 isn't possible FYI
I was looking at the S16; then Geometron was supposed to have a S1 come out last spring but they "abandoned" the project pretty much at debut. The S1 was pretty much what I would want in a smaller travel bike. Now seeing the new Fluid I could get pretty close on a L frame with a short shocked coil. It would be an alloy Optic.
Posted by: craw
Posted by: velocipedestrian
Posted by: xy9ine
*further peruses the nicolai catalog* - also kinda digging the saturn 14st; as a "water bottle mount is non-negotiable" kinda guy, this bike is fully box ticking.
That's the one.
The Saturn 16 was the bike I was originally going to get - basically to swap out of my G1 into something a little steeper, a little peppier that has a water bottle. The Nucleon will apparently have a water bottle but it will mount on some kind of modular removable system.
The adaptor plate from area between the bb and shock link on the G1 might be able to thread to the cable threads on top of the downtube? I feel those threads are smaller than the lower G1 mounting point though?
Likely the S14ST/S16/N16 are getting the Twist Bottle Clamp which isn't the worst thing.
__________________________
The Saturns and Nucleon use a less extreme, Trail version geometry compared to the G1.
I was told a longer travel version of the N16 is in development. Can't recall if the N16 is dual crown rated like the G1 is.
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