New posts

Anyone put an HC97 in a late model Lyrik?

Sept. 19, 2021, 8:03 a.m.
Posts: 406
Joined: Jan. 2, 2018

I have a 2020 Lyrik Ultimate RC2 but find the low speed compression damping does basically nothing. 

As a result it's tough to get enough support in steep chunky things, fork rides too low in the travel. 

It helps if I run an extra 20psi or so but obviously there's a big tradeoff in terms of increased harshness.

I've heard the HC97 helps with this but was curious to know any other experiences people have had, as it's not a cheap piece of gear to add to what was not a particularly cheap fork to begin with. I could sell the lyrik and try something else for less money.

Sept. 19, 2021, 10:12 a.m.
Posts: 1002
Joined: May 11, 2018

Do you have the new debonair or old air spring? The new one does sit higher. In terms of a 300$ upgrade to a two season old fork, how long do you think the csu will last? Is an important question. What about getting the compression tune changed with your next service?

I think it's crazy to spend that much on a fork that already costs so much, I just can't do it.  I'm always impressed by the amount some people on here drop on suspension upgrades. It's too bad that these upgrades can't go from fork to fork as you wear old ones out, like my ck hub does. Been on 4 bikes now over a decade. If only suspension was more consistent.

Sept. 19, 2021, 6:02 p.m.
Posts: 406
Joined: Jan. 2, 2018

Yeah I hate to consider the purchase basically out of principle, such an expensive part shouldn't need such an expensive upgrade to work acceptably

Funny you mention the air spring though, it was originally a C1 170mm and it rode high. It was on the harsh side but it rode high.

I swapped a C1 160mm in and put it on this new bike and at the same pressure the 170 was harsh and high this one is low and soft. It's much less harsh though, I suspect it has a more appropriate amount of grease and oil now. And yeah it's a different bike now with longer chainstays and inherently more weight on the front so a few variables changing. 

As far as I know you can put any air spring in any lyrik, the 170/180 forks just have different sag markings, but maybe I'm wrong?

A damper tune is a great idea and a better compromise. I might check if that is something fluid function can do.


 Last edited by: Kenny on Sept. 19, 2021, 6:03 p.m., edited 1 time in total.
Sept. 19, 2021, 11:46 p.m.
Posts: 1010
Joined: June 26, 2012

Yeah, you can fit any length air spring in any Lyrik. The sag indicators are the only difference between 150/160 and 170/180 versions.

The less travel, the more air pressure you will need to run to achieve similar support. This could be why the same air pressure felt a bit harsh at 170 but at a bit soft at 160. 

Also, did you add a token when you set up the 160? You need to add one token for each 10 mm in travel reduction to achieve similar ramp.

I suspect getting your air spring dialled in will make a bigger difference than the damper upgrade (though I can’t speak from experience). 

Also, you might like the Debonair B1, which is softer off the top than the C1 but requires higher pressure and is therefore potentially more supportive deeper in the stroke. Swapping air springs is a relatively inexpensive experiment.

Sept. 20, 2021, 8:08 a.m.
Posts: 406
Joined: Jan. 2, 2018

Thanks DC, good info! 

The last ride felt so sketchy that when I got home I immediately added 10psi and put two spacers in, so what you described is about what it felt like it needed. Haven't had a chance to ride since the change. I was thinking that change would be more of a bandaid but if that's typical maybe there's no real issue at all. 

I mean I think it still highlighted the lack of compression damping but it was tolerable before  if it's tolerable once again with the air spring adjustments then I'll just ask fluid function about a retune next time it needs service.

Sept. 20, 2021, 9:35 a.m.
Posts: 1002
Joined: May 11, 2018

I have a b1 airspring you could try if you want. I like the c1 better personally. I like the higher ride and support I feel it gives. 

If you ran the same air pressure and tokens as the longer travel, what you did could definitely help.

Sept. 20, 2021, 10:17 a.m.
Posts: 406
Joined: Jan. 2, 2018

Cool thanks, yeah I lean towards wanting to keep the front end high even if at the expense of some suppleness.  It's sounding like I might have just missed/underestimated the setup changes that would be needed as a result of the travel change. Interestingly I've gone the other way a few times - to longer air springs and haven't thought twice about letting a little air out or pulling a spacer.

Excited to try it.

Sept. 20, 2021, 11:53 a.m.
Posts: 23
Joined: Oct. 23, 2019

I have a 2019 Lyrik RC 170mm B1 Debonair 51mm offset with an HC97. I have complicated feelings about it tbh, I've gone through a lot of different configurations with it and I can't say I've ever been fully satisfied with the performance, but I don't think that the HC97 is necessarily the problem. My setup is as follows:

~190lb with gear

2019 Kona Process XL w/ -2° Angleset, Cascade Link, Super Deluxe MegNeg w/ Tractive Tune

Static Geo: HA: 63.99°, FC: 857mm, RC: 424mm 

Fork Setup:

Spring: 170mm B1 Debonair, 97.5-99.5 psi (depending on terrain), ~0.5 spacer (cut in half, so difficult to know the exact volume)

Damper (all counted from fully closed CW): Oil: Motorex Racing Fork Oil 2.5W, LSC: -22, HSC: -15, LSR: -9, HSR: RP3 shimstack (My damper is a Charger 2, not a 2.1)

I have questions about your setup, but I think that if your only issue with your Lyrik is that you'd like more compression damping range, the HC97 will probably give you that. Whether that solves your problem is a different question imo.

Honestly it does sounds like you just didn't have enough air in the fork for the change in travel, but if you (or anyone else) is interested in getting into details:

- what settings are you running/what's your weight with gear?

- What kind of shock pump are you using? Tuning a modern fork (or air shock) absolutely requires a digital pump, they look like they're from the same factory, so buy the cheapest one you can find

Can you confirm whether you have a Charger 2 (black damper sealhead) or Charger 2.1 (red damper sealhead) damper, they (apparently) made changes to the LSC circuit in the C2.1 which allowed it to actually close (you can check using your serial number on the Rockshox Trailhead webpage, also provides you with their recommended air pressure (for B1 is too soft, for C1 may be closer to correct) and rebound damping, but is setup for whatever length spring your serial number had originally, so you may have to input your model manually)

Has anyone actually had Fluid Function retune the compression side of a Charger 2/2.1 damper, especially the RC2? It doesn't seem like it lends itself well to tuning, what with the big preload spring on the HSC shimstack, and making changes to the LSC would require custom parts

Sept. 21, 2021, 10:08 a.m.
Posts: 406
Joined: Jan. 2, 2018

I guess the difference I notice regardless of what the shock pump reads, or anything else, is that with my other bike (Fox 38 Factory w/ Fit4), I can basically ignore what the "number" on the pump reads (other than as a relative reference point for future adjustments) and just set the spring rate to a point that feels comfortable and has good small bump, and then adjust the compression damping to stop it from diving or "overshooting" deeper into the travel than is necessary. 

With the lyrik I can't do that, because increasing the damping doesn't really do much. I can increase the support via more spring rate, which I will do since it's a better option than feeling like I'm headed OTB all the time, but compared to the Fox I can't help but feel like it's oversprung to compensate for a lack of compression damping, but it is what it is at this point. :)

Sept. 22, 2021, 8:36 a.m.
Posts: 1010
Joined: June 26, 2012

Honestly, I think tracking down a Debonair B1 is worth a shot to start. The C1 was designed to sit high in its travel and, as a result, you will end up with a spring rate that is unsupportive deeper in the travel if you set it up to feel like a 2021 Fox off the top, or it will will feel firmer off the top if you set it up for good support later in the travel. The 2021 Fox air springs are more similar to the B1, with a larger negative spring and less preload at topout. That’s not to say the Charger 2.1 damper is perfect. It’s more that what you describe sounds like how the Debonair C1 air spring feels.


 Last edited by: D_C_ on Sept. 22, 2021, 8:37 a.m., edited 1 time in total.
Sept. 22, 2021, 9:09 a.m.
Posts: 23
Joined: Oct. 23, 2019

I agree with D_C_ I was going to suggest the B1 spring as well.

Especially if you're feeling like you're losing small bump sensitivity with the air pressure you need to keep the front end at the height you want.

I'd recommend tuning by feel, rather than the RS recommendations with the B1, you'll probably end up at a higher pressure than they suggest. I setup my fork to provide the support and dynamic geometry I want/need without trying to ensure I use full travel, I don't think I've ever bottomed out my with the pressure I'm running. If that would be a problem for you, you could also try using a 170mm B1 air spring and set it up so you end up using ~160mm of travel. Really once you have the B1 sealhead and shaft nut you'll be able to swap them out on to either your 170mm or 160mm shaft.

I think that your general idea that you need to set up the Lyrik to be supported by the air spring instead of the damper, tracks with my experience. Setting up with more air and less damping or less air and more damping are both valid setup methods, and just come down to preference. However with more air less damping, you do need to pay much closer attention to the air pressure (again, digital pumps are your friend here). I think try to get the support you need from the air spring first and then decide if you want to upgrade the damper to get the final adjustments. 

You didn't specify how you've got your damper setup currently, but the HSC and LSC circuits are related*, so if you're trying to run HSC wide open with LSC fully closed, the oil will start opening the HSC circuit more often which can make the ride weird/harsh/unsupportive. 

*the amount that this effect becomes an issue will be different depending on which damper you have, to my knowledge, the C2.1 RC2 damper only has 5 clicks of HSC so if may not be possible to create a bad setup with the limited adjustment available, but it is definitely possible to setup the HC97 wrong in this way

Sept. 22, 2021, 9:53 a.m.
Posts: 83
Joined: Oct. 10, 2017

Interesting topic- was looking at the HC97. I actually liked the RC2 w/C1, found it to be compliant off the top but super sensitive to tire pressure.  Here's my setup that I used across the shore/fraser valley and Sea2sky for a 185 lbs rider

2 tokens
Air pressure- 78 to 80 psi
HSC 1-2 from open
LSC 3-4 from open
Rebound 8 from closed
Yes I know all settings should be from closed- but its easier for my old brain to remember

Sept. 23, 2021, 11:20 a.m.
Posts: 406
Joined: Jan. 2, 2018

Got a ride down 7th and espresso last night, 120psi, 2 tokens, open hsc/lsc, rebound 3 clicks from closed.

I have a digital pump inbound, last night's ride made it evident that is a must. It was on the firm side (I intentionally went firmer than necessary so that I can dial it back from there), but I can tell incrementally lowering the pressure accurately is going to be important and my analog pump won't cut it.

I'm about 215 with gear, 100psi was way low. 120 is too much, but not a tonne. I am guessing it'll be 115ish or maybe 110 with some hsc/lsc dialed in.

Still drastically more than rock shox recommends but if it works, it works...


 Last edited by: Kenny on Sept. 23, 2021, 11:21 a.m., edited 1 time in total.
Sept. 24, 2021, 10:40 a.m.
Posts: 83
Joined: Oct. 10, 2017

Posted by: Kenny

Got a ride down 7th and espresso last night, 120psi, 2 tokens, open hsc/lsc, rebound 3 clicks from closed.

I have a digital pump inbound, last night's ride made it evident that is a must. It was on the firm side (I intentionally went firmer than necessary so that I can dial it back from there), but I can tell incrementally lowering the pressure accurately is going to be important and my analog pump won't cut it.

I'm about 215 with gear, 100psi was way low. 120 is too much, but not a tonne. I am guessing it'll be 115ish or maybe 110 with some hsc/lsc dialed in.

Still drastically more than rock shox recommends but if it works, it works...

Sounds like things are getting closer for you!

If it were me, I would 

open rebound 1 click

add 1 click of HSC 

add 2-3 of clicks of LSC 

go with 105psi


 Last edited by: ehfour on Sept. 24, 2021, 10:42 a.m., edited 1 time in total.
Sept. 24, 2021, 11:25 a.m.
Posts: 1455
Joined: Nov. 8, 2003

Posted by: wingelabs

I agree with D_C_ I was going to suggest the B1 spring as well...

I'll throw my hat in for this too. B1 with a healthy amount of low speed compression was the best fork I've run for steeps. Running a C1 now and it's a bit of a step down.

Forum jump: